Would You Open in 4th Seat

[eagles123]

[hv=pc=n&w=sht54dk872caqjt42&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=ppp]133|200[/hv]

 

scoring: imps

vul: none vul

 

 

would you open this in 4th seat and what are the reasons?

 

Thanks,

 

Eagles

[helene_t]

I wouldn't. Requiring 15 pearson points is too dogmatic, but opening with 10 pearson points is too much for me. If opps don't have a great fit in one or both major suits, we will have a misfit. 3♣ could easily be too much. Above all I fear partner doubling them in a makeable contract. I don't have much defense against spades.

 

Opening could, of course, work. Opps might find their spade fit and go down because of the 5-0 split.

 

If I were to open, it would be 3♣.

[P_Marlowe]

If the hand satisfies your req. for a 3C opening bid, make the bid,

unfortunately, for most, the hand will be too weak.

 

Hence pass.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[gszes]

3c

 

Matters not MP or IMPS though at IMPS I would pass if we were ahead as a form of

insurance against the opps making 4M. At MP its only 1 board. The 3c bid tells

p many things you felt you had enough offensive fire power to make 3c opposite

their expected holding and more importantly you are letting your p know you do

not have a lot of defense so p will x with care and we can honor any x they make.

 

It is not all that likely 3c will come to any great harm and p should not go too

crazy about bidding further since your 3c bid is primarily designed to warn p

about the probabilities of game being low.

[BillPatch]

If I were to open 3♣ in fourth seat I want partner to be open to the possibility of game in 3NT. This hand clearly does not qualify for this.

[mcphee]

I can not bring myself to consider bidding something other than pass. This hand does not meet any requirements for an opening imo.

[MrAce]

3 club for me

[blackshoe]

When I first got back into bridge, playing rubber at lunchtime and duplicate in the evenings, in one of my first lunchtime games, I preempted in fourth seat on a typical 1st/2nd seat hand, with long spades. It did not go well. Later, one of my colleagues, who'd been sitting behind me kibitzing, asked "why would you want to preempt in fourth seat?" "I have no idea," I replied. B-)

 

On this hand, I pass.

[wank]

yes 3c. i 'pre-empt' in 4th because i expect to make.

[monikrazy]

yes, this hand is a full open and therefore too good to pass

 

if ops want to balance over 3c at equal vul good luck to them

[Mbodell]

One of the advantages of playing aggressive openings is you can pass with confidence with a hand like this.

[Trigona]

It's a 2C opening if you play fantunes.

[Zelandakh]

It's a 2C opening if you play fantunes.

That would be true in seats 1 and 2 - it is less clear in seats 3 and 4.

[the hog]

yes 3c. i 'pre-empt' in 4th because i expect to make.

 

And when pd bids the likely 3NT how many do you expect to go down? Obvious pass.

[MrAce]

And when pd bids the likely 3NT how many do you expect to go down? Obvious pass.

 

I don't know him but I personally expect to make 3 NT more often than not. And In those hands that it doesn't make, I expect a hand from pd that makes 3 NT a very reasonable contract.

[eagles123]

thanks folks,

 

well I passed...

 

unfortunatley i don't have the hand record as this was a bbo TM that the TD cancelled when his side were doing badly!

 

other side were in 3N - 1 I think

 

Eagles

[MrAce]

thanks folks,

 

well I passed...

 

unfortunatley i don't have the hand record as this was a bbo TM that the TD cancelled when his side were doing badly!

 

other side were in 3N - 1 I think

 

Eagles

 

So if It was not cancelled you and passers would win 2 IMPs? What if 3 NT made?

I mean it's not like we are about to turn a plus score to minus. I would be thrilled if my pd bids 3 NT when we were about to write "passed" on scorecard at TM. Give em a 50 or 100 if pd has a hand that he believed we could make 9 tricks. With those club honors we hold and a pd who is bidding 3 NT and both of opps coming from pass no one is doubling this 3 NT.

[Winstonm]

What Helene said.

[mikeh]

Late to the party but I pass.

 

If I were to open, it would be 3♣ but I see too many down sides.

 

In no particular order:

 

1. they get to bid and make a major suit game. Improbable? Yes. Impossible? No.

2. partner stretches and we go minus on a hand on which we could have passed it out

3. we go down in 3♣. I wouldn't see that as a big risk, but it could happen if partner's 7-8 hcp were in the majors

 

The upsides are we make 3♣ (maybe an o/t or 2), or partner bids and we make a game. Maybe they compete and go down.

 

My sense is that on balance the downsides outweigh the upsides, but this is a gut sense and I accept that the experience of others may lead them to be more optimistic.

[nige1]

For me, a 3rd in hand 3 bid shows a "solid" suit (e.g. ♣ A K Q x x x), so I wouldn't open. If this hand fits your agreements, however, then I think it's reasonable to open 3♣. ♠ are likely to split badly for opponents and you have lots of playing tricks. At MPs, bidding would be less fraught than at IMPs.

[MrAce]

Late to the party but I pass.

 

If I were to open, it would be 3♣ but I see too many down sides.

 

In no particular order:

 

1. they get to bid and make a major suit game. Improbable? Yes. Impossible? No.

2. partner stretches and we go minus on a hand on which we could have passed it out

3. we go down in 3♣. I wouldn't see that as a big risk, but it could happen if partner's 7-8 hcp were in the majors

 

The upsides are we make 3♣ (maybe an o/t or 2), or partner bids and we make a game. Maybe they compete and go down.

 

My sense is that on balance the downsides outweigh the upsides, but this is a gut sense and I accept that the experience of others may lead them to be more optimistic.

 

Now I agree with all the downsides and upsides you listed. What I do not understand is the conclusion. How on earth these downsides you listed overweights the upsides? I know there are 3 downsides in your list vs 2 upsides but that's not how we calculate and you are good enough to know this boss, c'mon :-)

[SteveMoe]

PASS - thinking is an overbid.

If partner has ♠ we have a misfit.

If opponents have ♠ they will awaken to their fit.

I want a 4th seat preempt to show one trick away - that is I have 8 tricks for a 9 trick contract (count on partner for ONE).

This hand has 5.5 tricks - need 2.5 more to open 3♣.

[biggerclub]

[hv=pc=n&w=sht54dk872caqjt42&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=ppp]133|200[/hv]

 

scoring: imps

vul: none vul

 

 

would you open this in 4th seat and what are the reasons?

 

Thanks,

 

Eagles

 

I did open a fairly similar hand in 4th seat at the Long Beach regional . . . successfully garnering a plus in 3♣ all PASS. However, I had a few cards in each major (if memory serves) along with solid clubs, so I must have been short in ♦s, not spades. Partner had an A and a well placed K along with a worthless J.

 

In this hand, I can't imagine who passed with spades and an 11+ count, but as previously noted if it was partner we are a misfit.

 

I don't think opening leads to a plus score all that often. I pass this one.