Requirement for 2/1 by passed hand

[Bbradley62]

If North can't go 2/1 with this passed hand, will he ever?

[hv=nn=Robot&n=S4HT8643DAKJT2CQ5&d=w&v=o&b=4&a=PPP1S(Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20%21S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)P1N(Forcing%20one%20notrump%20--%206-11%20HCP%3B%2012-%20total%20points)P2C(New%20suit%20--%203+%20%21C%3B%203-%20%21H%3B%205+%20%21S%3B%2011+%20HCP%3B%2012-18%20total%20points)P2N(Balanced%20invite%20--%204-%20%21C%3B%202-%20%21S%3B%2010-11%20HCP%3B%2012-%20total%20points)P3N(3+%20%21C%3B%203-%20%21H%3B%205-6%20%21S%3B%2015+%20HCP%3B%2018-%20total%20points%3B%20partial%20stop%20in%20%21D%3B%20partial%20stop%20in%20%21H)PPP]180|270[/hv]

[lycier]

I think natural bidding approach can't solve every problem.

for this hand,we need some decent gadgets,for example,Bart convention.

[steve2005]

I think natural bidding approach can't solve every problem.

for this hand,we need some decent gadgets,for example,Bart convention.

Gib is using forcing 1N even by a passed hand so it's not using natural bidding.

 

so 2N makes some sense over a 2♣ rebid.

 

but if opener has KQx♥ or similar you missed ♥ fit

 

would like better ♥ but bidding 2♥ rebidding a NF 3♦ over 2♠ and going for 3N over a 2N or 3♣ rebid sounds not too bad. maybe not with this hand but with a ♥ honor for sure

[Bbradley62]

I prefer the natural bidding as Steve describes... But it does seem that there is currently no such thing as a hand that would bid 2H over 1S as a passed hand, unless possibly a maximum pass with 3♠ and 5♥.

[1eyedjack]

With Txxxx, if partner can't rebid 2H over 1N I would give up on the suit, unless partner later patterns out with 3H to show 3 + extras.

 

Yes I will miss the occasional good 2H spot. More frequently I reckon to avoid a bad 2H spot.

 

 

 

[Bbradley62]

Regardless of the merits of this particular hand, I'm still hoping that someone with access to GIB code can answer my basic question: If North holds something more like x, AJxxx, Kxxxx, Qx, will he bid 2♥ over 1♠ as a passed hand?

[Antrax]

Gib is using forcing 1N even by a passed hand

It doesn't. The description claims it does, but it passes the PH 1NT with balanced minimums frequently.

[Bbradley62]

Gib is using forcing 1N even by a passed hand...

It doesn't. The description claims it does, but it passes the PH 1NT with balanced minimums frequently.

GIB uses semi-forcing style here; he still might have a three-card limit raise (which would be a direct 3M bid in a more natural SAYC system) and opener is expected to continue bidding with anything except a balanced minimum.

[steve2005]

GIB uses semi-forcing style here; he still might have a three-card limit raise (which would be a direct 3M bid in a more natural SAYC system) and opener is expected to continue bidding with anything except a balanced minimum.

 

yes I remember sometime it passes 1N. but look at those ♦ surely there worth a nf 2/1? if the ♥ arn't. even if it breaks Kantar's rule of always bidding the higher suit regardless of quality lol.

 

certainly beats opp running off 5 clubs on some 1N hands