Bid this Slam(?) With Me

[monikrazy]

[hv=pc=n&s=st93ha95daqj9765c&w=s2hqj432dtcqjt863&n=saj654hkt876dcak9&e=skq87hdk8432c7542&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=p1sp2d3c3h4c6cp6hp6sppp]399|300[/hv]

 

This hand came up during a practice bidding session today. Partnership was playing 2/1, and if responder repeats his minor it is non-forcing. While doubles hadn't been discussed much, presumably a double of clubs at any point would be for penalty.

 

I'd be curious to hear about some other posters would bid throughout this auction, and whether there are any methods that could improve it.

[whereagles]

I wouldn't bid 3♥ on the North hand. Not with a void in pard's main suit.

 

If South balances

- 3D: now bid 3H or 3NT.

- 3S: bid 4

- Dbl: bid 4H

[gszes]

There is a ton of potential here sprinkled with some caution due to

the void in responders suit. The 3h bid here should probably be best

done with a weaker more distributional hand AQxxx KQxxxx x x for ex.

 

pass can be saved for the more humdrum boring normal hands and x can

be used for hands like this one which want to set up a game force. This

actually makes the bidding easier since once rho bids 4c responder can

pass to show slam interest and a simple 4h rebid by north can show a

minimum for the previous x and not much slam interest. his is especially

important when you realize a huge amount of repsonders slam interest is

probably based on club shortness opposite our "wasted" AK. The nice part

about the 4h bid is that it warns p to expect rather short diamonds from us.

 

Responder will then have a ton of information worries about a dia misfit

only an 8 card trump fit and if p has no slam interest after initially showing

extra values they most assuredly have stuff in clubs "wasted" opposite the

void.

 

Responder might make one more slam try but should not venture to the 6 level

and really should not be faulted (applauded?) for signing off in 4s.

[Antrax]

You guys did notice they're playing 2/1 right? They're already in a game force before the club bid.

[Zelandakh]

You guys did notice they're playing 2/1 right? They're already in a game force before the club bid.

Not quite. Although the text mentions 2/1 the fulle quote is:

 

Partnership was playing 2/1, and if responder repeats his minor it is non-forcing.

ie not 2/1.

 

The trouble is that that has a direct bearing on the meaning of double, in which it appears that forcing passes are on despite the invitational possibility. This is problematic - for example the point where the auction really went pear-shaped was the 6♣ rebid but what is South to do? Normally a forcing pass here would work nicely but would we not have done that with the invitational hand? As double has been taken off the table for penalties we end up a bit stuck.

 

A similar question arises as to whether pass would be forcing over 3♣. Not discussing doubles/competition in this kind of system strikes me as the worst of all worlds. YOu have to know if forcing passes apply and cannot assume penalty doubles for situations where the do not!

[Antrax]

I don't follow. I only know 2/1 except-minor-rebid from the Lawrence CD, and in it 1M-2m-(2x)-P, pass is forcing. Is there another flavor where 2/1 is only forcing if responder's next rebid is not a rebid of his minor or pass?