Response to 1S

[eagles123]

IMPS on BBO p is a regular partner and opps are strong. wasn't sure what to do here. not keen on splintering with aces but maybe I should?

or 2NT jacoby better

or my choice 4s

 

4 card majors weak NT

 

thanks

 

Eagles[hv=pc=n&n=sq98754hj3dacqt92&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1sp]133|200[/hv]

[ArtK78]

What I would like to do is to make some sort of artificial limit raise, like Bergen, and then bid game. That would let partner know that I have some "stuff" but not to get too excited.

 

Failing that, the next choice that I would like to have available to me is the option to make a "good" preemptive raise to 4♠. Many partnerships play that a 3NT response to one of a major opening shows a hand that looks like a preemptive raise to game but has some "stuff." [There I go again using that technical term for values]

 

If that is also not available to me, I am probably left with just bidding game and hoping for the best. I am not going to show a game forcing hand by bidding Jacoby 2NT or any other forcing raise that may be available. Partner could get too excited. If 1NT were forcing (and I assume that it is not since you are playing a 4 card major system) then 1NT followed by 4♠ might be OK.

[billw55]

IMO a splinter encourages partner to downgrade honors in the suit. Here even ♦Kx is very nice, giving us a potentially valuable discard. So I think splinter would be the wrong message.

 

I will try J2NT. I think it is too strong for a direct jump to 4♠.

 

edit: Art's Bergen --> game may be a better idea.

[quiddity]

If that is also not available to me, I am probably left with just bidding game and hoping for the best. I am not going to show a game forcing hand by bidding Jacoby 2NT or any other forcing raise that may be available. Partner could get too excited.

 

Can you provide an example of the type of hand you're worried about?

[ArtK78]

Can you provide an example of the type of hand you're worried about?

ATxxx

Qx

KQJxx

A

 

Or, even worse:

 

KJxxx

Qx

KQJxx

A

 

Could easily get to 5♠ if partner shows a game forcing hand.

[aguahombre]

Don't think 1NT forcing is part of a 4cM system, but Art's mixed raise to 4 via FNT is our agreement.

 

I would not Splinter this one..with only one control card which is awkwardly placed.

 

We have seen what happens (here on other threads) when we make an invitational bid intending to go to game anyway. Partner breaks tempo, and "But, I was gonna..." oops.

[whereagles]

It's big odds partner is 15-17 with 4 spades. I'll settle for game, but I'll let pard show his hand before bidding it, lest he gets happy too soon.

[P_Marlowe]

absent add. agreements, I am bidding 4S.

 

If we make 4S+2, so be it, next board.

 

If you cant stand 4S+2, go with 2NT, this should allow you to check out,

in 4S, if you are missing 2+ Aces, or AK in a suit.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Cyberyeti]

I'd bid 4♠, no absolute guarantee it's our hand yet (give pard AKJxxx, x, xx, KJxx, and we may not be able to beat 6 of either red suit).

[MrAce]

IMPS on BBO p is a regular partner and opps are strong. wasn't sure what to do here. not keen on splintering with aces but maybe I should?

or 2NT jacoby better

or my choice 4s

 

4 card majors weak NT

 

thanks

 

Eagles[hv=pc=n&n=sq98754hj3dacqt92&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1sp]133|200[/hv]

As Art pointed out it is necessity IMHO to express hands that will play at least 4M with shape but not quite good for splinter bid and/or not quite weak enough to waste all the space and bid 4 sp.

Having said that, I would probably never ever put them in forcing NT again. I did that when I was young, which was a big mistake and...oh boy...I found myself in very awkward situations. IMHO it is naive to think that we will have our free auction as we hold a huge fit and not too many hcps. IMO we should have an immediate bid that expresses this type of hand, believe me or not this is much more important for your pd than knowing your exact singleton, especially when LHO is about to make big noise or simply overcall and his pd gets turned on like a bull in china town.

[wank]

well yes splintering in a singleton ace isn't ideal, but nor is anything else on this hand.

 

4d is best of a bad job imo.

[mike777]

Bergen raises has a bid for these hands. 4d shows this type of hand.

 

1) 5+ trumps

2) less than 10 hcp

3) 1 to 1.5 outside quick tricks.

 

If that is not an option than I will try whatever your strong spade raise is.

[mcphee]

I had to vote to make the limit raise using bergen or reverse bergen and hope to get the chance to show the ace of D later.

[helene_t]

I don't think bergen raises are part of the OP system.

2nt for me. 4di is possible but it's easier to avoid a bad slam if I am captain myself

[MickyB]

Splintering looks normal. A stiff ace is fine when we have soft values outside. We might miss a slam opposite Axx heart and the ♦K but otherwise it should work out fine.

[gszes]

It is a dangerous practice to use something like jacoby 2n here because it

sets up possible future issues via forcing pass if the opps can (and probably

will) bid. Not only that but we are more than an ace short (the spade Q is

assuredly close to useless with an 11+ card spade fit) for such a bid in case

opener has slam aspirations. The Club Q and heart J also rate to worth far less

for slam purposes so our hand (for slam) looks more and more like xxxxxx xx A Qxxx.

 

It is remotely possible partner will have such a monster that slam makes but it is

far far far very far more likely the opps will get into the bidding if we keep the level

low. A nice preemptive bid of

 

4s

 

here will go a long way toward keeping the opps out of the bidding and warns P of our

lack of power in case they were thinking about slam.

[rmnka447]

4 ♠ !

 

Even if partner is on a 4 card ♠ suit, we have a 10 card fit. Partner needs a mountain for slam to be on. So I'll put us in what should be a pretty good contract.

 

If the opponents have a lot of cards, let them try to figure it out at the 5 level with little or no information about our hands.

 

If I splinter or use Jacoby, partner may play me for more than I have or it may just give the opponents a chance to compete.

[TMorris]

Way too good for 4 ♠. 4 ♦ is not ideal but the best option to show the hand

[eagles123]

thanks to all

 

on the actual hand it was either 4s = or + 1 but a few changes to P's hand and slam would've been on.

[Wackojack]

Many Acol players use a 2NT response as invite plus. Then if you have follow ups worked out to show the strength and distribution level you should be able to land at the correct level. Such as:

3♣ any min opener

3♦= extras no shortage

3♥= extras ♣ shortage

3♠ = extras ♦ shortage

3N = extras ♥shortage.

 

Then again if 4th hand intervenes you need to have these rebids worked out

 

Otherwise just bid 4♠

[Zelandakh]

Many Acol players use a 2NT response as invite plus.

Seems like an overbid. I do not know any Acol players that are using this structure and have never seen it in the BBO Acol Club in the (many) years I have been visiting. More than that, is the information we get going to help us make a decision on going past 4♠ or not even if the auction remains uncomtested? And there has to be a decent chance of hearing some number of hearts or diamonds from LHO before partner gets to show us anything at all.

 

If we have a sequence that specifically shows a good distributional raise to game such as with Bergen then it is worth considering. But absent such special agerements the practical choice is 4♠.

[whereagles]

I don't think 2NT is an overbid. If opener has only 4 spades, then he's got 15-17. If he has 5 spades you want to be in game anyway.

 

But yeah, agree 4S is the practical shot here. And also it's not clear how the extra info from 2NT is gonna be worth something. Besides, 2NT might encourage a bal 15-17 partner to move beyond 4S and that might be unsafe.

[Zelandakh]

I don't think 2NT is an overbid.

That many Acol players use the structure was the overbid... :)