thejcb Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 The advanced bid is double. Why is everyone passing, just double and see what happens. They cant make game, why is this so difficult for all you beginners to understand ? bidding or pass is beginner. DOUBLE is the advanced bid, maybe your p is sitting there with 5 or 6 diamonds, he cant double can he ? so he waits for you to do it for him. Obvious and advanced bidding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2005 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I vote 3♣, may end up in 3♠ when could be in 2♠. If p has a real trap (and not just a bunch of ♦) we will be in 3N. If p has 4+♥ is weak and we double will be in bad spot. p could have some clubs and was unable to show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Double >>> 3♣. I'm not saying I would double, but the point is you can double and remove 2♥ to 2♠ to show a 5♠ 4♣ and extras (and catering to the unlikely pass, and hands that insist on hearts). Reopening with 3♣ shows, of all things, a bunch of spades and clubs - probably 6-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 The advanced bid is double. Why is everyone passing, just double and see what happens. They cant make game, why is this so difficult for all you beginners to understand ? bidding or pass is beginner. DOUBLE is the advanced bid, maybe your p is sitting there with 5 or 6 diamonds, he cant double can he ? so he waits for you to do it for him. Obvious and advanced biddingI am surely glad we have an advanced player as a new addition to the forums. We should learn a lot. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I am going to pass call me a conservative, old fashion, whatever No I would not call you old fashioned. I would call you sensible. This is a bad hand on which to reopen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 reopening is poor. this isn't a great hand (kx under the bid) and partner couldn't act himself. those hoping for partner to float it are too optimistic. partner's not got a trump stack when you have kx against an unfavourable 2 level overcall in a minor. it's more likely we'll protect the opps into something good than do the same for ourselves. they could easily be making game in hearts - lho could be 64 or rho could have a heart suit without enough to advance. as for 3C, that would be woefully bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Double >>> 3♣. I'm not saying I would double, but the point is you can double and remove 2♥ to 2♠ to show a 5♠ 4♣ and extras (and catering to the unlikely pass, and hands that insist on hearts). Reopening with 3♣ shows, of all things, a bunch of spades and clubs - probably 6-5.Well what would you do with an ordinary 6♠-2♥-2♦-3♣ opening, spades not particularly strong. I bet you would double and remove 2♥ to 2♠I agree though that an immediate 3♣ should hint at a 5 card suit, but do not tell me that you must have 4♣s when you remove 2♥ to 2♠. It is at least ambiguous Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 reopening is poor. this isn't a great hand (kx under the bid) and partner couldn't act himself. those hoping for partner to float it are too optimistic. partner's not got a trump stack when you have kx against an unfavourable 2 level overcall in a minor. it's more likely we'll protect the opps into something good than do the same for ourselves. they could easily be making game in hearts - lho could be 64 or rho could have a heart suit without enough to advance. as for 3C, that would be woefully bad.It may not be likely but partner could still be sitting there with ♦J9xxx, shortage in spades and a few values behind overcaller. I consider that they have game in hearts and they will bid it, when they were prepared to play 2♦ and partner refused to raise us really remote. But they could have a partial in hearts, we better do not double. It might be close but letting them play 2♦ when partner has no trump stack is unlikely to be successful either and we are not vulnerable. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Well what would you do with an ordinary 6♠-2♥-2♦-3♣ opening, spades not particularly strong. I bet you would double and remove 2♥ to 2♠I agree though that an immediate 3♣ should hint at a 5 card suit, but do not tell me that you must have 4♣s when you remove 2♥ to 2♠. It is at least ambiguous Rainer Herrmann You lost your bet. I've explained in 927 recent threads that I use these sequences to show flexible hands and not one suiters. With an ordinary 6223 I would reopen with, of all things, 2♠. IMO doubling in case partner is stacked is nuts. Anyway, I would not double on this hand, because it is not strong enough to pull 2♥ to 2♠ (I would if the red suits were reversed) - but it unambiguously promises 4 clubs. If you don't want me to tell you that, that's too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jallerton Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Phil: what would you do with a strong 6=3=1=3 shape with decent defence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 The advanced bid is double. Why is everyone passing, just double and see what happens. They cant make game, why is this so difficult for all you beginners to understand ? bidding or pass is beginner. DOUBLE is the advanced bid, maybe your p is sitting there with 5 or 6 diamonds, he cant double can he ? so he waits for you to do it for him. Obvious and advanced biddingI guess I am a beginner, because pass seems clear to me. I don't know what advanced game you play in, but in the beginner games I enjoy, the chances that partner has 5 or 6 diamonds, when a red v white opp makes a 2-level overcall, are....well....infinitesimal. Sure, he might have, say, Q10xx, but even then it is far from clear that he will or should sit for a double, especially if he has say Jxxxx in hearts or xxx in spades. No, the percentages appear to suggest that he will be bidding 2♥ on 4 or 5 cards in the suit, and a weak hand, and won't be thrilled with a diamond lead through dummy, or that he will take a preference to 2♠ on his doubleton, and have few, if any entries, and we will be struggling to get out for -1 or 2....perhaps even on a hand on which we would go plus on defence! Doubling, then pulling hearts to spades, shows a different hand. PhilKing may disagree, and maybe in his partnerships his experience is that he can bid this way. However, most experienced beginners would treat that sequence the way jallerton suggests: 2♠ shows a good hand with 6 spades, and is prototypically 6=3=1=3. Btw, this is a recurring theme in real life, especially with advanced players, who have learned that one should stretch to reopen when playing negative doubles, and haven't yet learned to recognize exceptions to that rule. This is one of them, imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Phil: what would you do with a strong 6=3=1=3 shape with decent defence? Double then 3♦ shows that hand for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 What is inconvenient about a double?Indeed; as my late friend Bob Brinig would say, it saves a trip to the bar. I would pass on this hand, however. Whenever I bid my partner has a 2-5-4-2 one count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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