how to show this monster

[bestguru]

Playing 2/1 with weak jump shifts. First time partner so not much defined.

 

Partner deals and opens 1d

 

You hold

 

♠A5 ♥AkQJ85 ♣A874 ♦9

 

I don't think I did a good job of getting the point across:

 

1♦ 2♣ 2♦ 3♥ 3NT 4♠ 4NT ...

 

From here I would probably have said 5h. Should I just go to 6?

[mike777]

Whole world asks why not start with 1H?

[Walddk]

I don't  think I did a good job of getting the point across

This is obviously a hand best suited for a strong jump shift (2♥ followed by 3♥ will set the suit), but it's not impossible to bid the hand even if you agreed on WJS.

 

For a start, bid your suits in the right order. Playing 2/1 some think that the correct response with the hand is 2♣ in order to establish a game force. It's not! 1♥ is as much forcing as 2♣ is (although not game forcing - yet).

 

I can't know how the bidding will proceed after 1♦-1♥, but let's assume opener rebids 1♠. You now venture 4th suit (2♣) and later rebid hearts which is at least slam invitational with a good 6-card suit. Then you are on the right track.

 

If opener rebids 2♦, I will improvise with 2♠ rather than 3♣ for 2 reasons:

 

1. It gives us more room.

 

2. Partner will not support spades, since he already denied 4 by rebidding 2♦.

 

Whether opener's next call is 2NT or 3♦, I will proceed with 3♥. Again at least slam invitational with own suit.

 

Finally, if opener rebids 1NT, I will use my 2-way check back Stayman tool (2♦ as a game forcing relay, asking for cheapest information not yet given). In a second I will rebid hearts to show exactly the same as in the two examples above.

 

Roland

 

P.S. If you play WJS you can jump to 3♥ as a game force, since 2♥ will be invitational.

[hotShot]

Well if you play weak jump shifts, you are stronger if you don't jump.

So:

1♦ - 1♥

1♠/1NT/2♣/2♦ - ?

jumping to 3♥ must be a strong hand now.

 

If partner did not bid 2♣ you can jump to 3♣ this should show at least 6♥/4♣ and strength.

If Partner bid 2♣ you might try to aim a slam in ♣.

[Walddk]

So:

1♦ - 1♥

1♠/1NT/2♣/2♦ -  ?

jumping to 3♥ must be a strong hand now.

In my book it shows 10-12 hcp and a 6-card suit and therefore non forcing. A good rule as to responder's rebid is: A suit at the 3-level, already bid by one of us, is always 10-12. Easy to remember.

 

After:

 

1♦-1♥

1NT

 

it doesn't even exist, but you could conceivably play it as above.

 

If you you want a jump rebid of own suit by responder to be GF, you will have a serious problem with a game invitational hand. Unless you play WJS of course; then 2♥ is invitational and 3♥ game forcing.

 

Roland

[hotShot]

In my book it shows 10-12 hcp and a 6-card suit and therefore non forcing. A good rule as to responder's rebid is: A suit the 3-level, already bid by one of us, is always 10-12. Easy to remember.

 

I like easy to remember rules :)!

 

Unless you play WJS of course; then 2♥ is invitational and 3♥ game forcing.

Nice that you agree.

 

hotShot

[han]

If you play 2-way checkback over 1D-1H-1NT (where 2C is a drop in diamonds or invitational hand, and 2D is an artificial game force) then you can just jump to 3H to show slam interest with very good hearts, convenient!

 

If you find this too hard to remember than you can play this as 10-12, but in that case you are probably not playing 2-way checkback anyway.

 

I play 1D-3H as a splinter. I wouldn't bid 3H with a casual partner on this hand unless discussed!

[mike777]

Welcome Wonderful Wacky World of 2/1

 

Now everyone can teach you their pet toys of checkback, 2 way checkback, xyz, NMF, splinters, REVERSES ON 2 AND 3 CARD SUITS, etc etc etc etc to fix all the problems of 2/1.

 

You may wish to learn to COUNT and VISUALIZE hands and learn to bid lONGEST suits first before embarking on this Wierd Wild Journey.

[bestguru]

Thanks for all your replies. My mistake was thinking 2♣ followed by 3♥ showed 6♥/4♣ instead of the other way around. It must have been the article about canape openings I was reading earlier in the day.

 

Walddk: I appreciate the breakdown and most of what you say there makes sense. I'd be worried about the 2♠ over 2♦ since it distorts the shape of your hand. Is this risky when you are pretty sure you are going to press for a small slam? You can always show your spade control later.

 

Mike: Good advice about COUNT and VISUALIZATION. I'm working on them. Still bends my mind most hands. As for bidding longest suits first, I'd really like to avoid that :lol:. Of course I usually don't have that choice as I don't have any regular partnerships.

[Walddk]

I'd be worried about the 2♠ over 2♦ since it distorts the shape of your hand.  Is this risky when you are pretty sure you are going to press for a small slam?  You can always show your spade control later.

2♠ would not be control showing, merely one way of making opener bid again (new suit by an unpassed responder is always forcing). So would 3♣ be of course, but 2♠ gives us a little more room (opener can bid 2NT), and he/she will not support spades, because he/she doesn't have 4.

 

Distorting the shape of my hand you may claim. Yes, but that is not an issue here. I am the captain, because opener has shown a limited hand by rebidding 2♦. My aim is to set hearts and learn about opener's controls later.

 

This is a formulation of the issue:

 

We play strong jump shifts:

 

Bid 2♥ on your first turn, and bid 3♥ next. That will set the suit and ask opener to cue bid. He/she may bid 4♥ as the weakest bid possible with a hand unsuitable for slam (lack of controls).

 

We play weak jump shifts:

 

Bid 1♥ and rebid 3♥. This is game forcing with a strongish 6+ card suit, because a direct 2♥ would be weak, and 1♥ followed by 2♥ invitational. If opener's rebid is 1NT, however, a special agreement applies if you play some kind of check back Stayman.

 

Roland