movingon Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 The bidding goes 1 club Pass 2 hearts Pass2 spades.... Is the 2 spade bid forcing? (edited to indicate that the 2 heart bid is preemptive...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 I am going to assume that 2♥ was weak, otherwise the question makes no sense. 2♠ should be forcing. With a weak hand, opener would have no reason to bid a new suit unless he was wildly distributional, and I would not devise a system that caters to that hand. On the other hand, if opener has a very strong hand, he wants to search for the best game even opposite a weak hand with a long suit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 If 2♥ is a strong bid, then it should be game forcing and hence all bids below game, including 2♠, are forcing. If 2♥ is weak, then I am not sure. 2♠ seems like it does not exist in this auction. Perhaps partner has a strong 6-5? At the table I would follow the principle: when in doubt, it's forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegmund Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Yes. Absent discussion I assume it means whatever a 2S response to a weak two means (except that it's very unlikely to be leading to a 5-3 fit.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Forcing for me and showing a very good hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Different people seem to define the nature of the preemptive 2H bid differently. In our style, with 2H showing 6 hearts and LESS than the values for a 1H response, 2S would be forcing but something designed to torture partner and accomplish nothing. In other words, it wouldn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluechip10 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 The bidding goes 1 club Pass 2 hearts Pass2 spades.... Is the 2 spade bid forcing? (edited to indicate that the 2 heart bid is preemptive...) I play it forcing. Really no different than the RONF rule for opening weak 2 bids I've been using. Obviously, the 2sp bid denies support (singleton or void in ♥). Responder will either support spades with 3 or more or rebid her suit. A new suit bid by responder, I believe requires partnership agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Obviously, the 2sp bid denies support (singleton or void in ♥). ♠AKJx ♥AQx ♦x ♣Axxxx opposite ♠Qxx ♥Kxxxxx ♦xxx ♣x With this hand as Opener, a natural and forcing 2♠ seems to make perfect sense. A splinter would have focused Responder on the potential club Queen. A spade bid and then heart slam move establishes the pattern (short diamonds) and focuses the spade suit as the source of need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlantajon Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 The bidding goes 1 club Pass 2 hearts Pass2 spades.... Is the 2 spade bid forcing? (edited to indicate that the 2 heart bid is preemptive...) Well it is clearly shape showing. 2♥ is a weak hand that is of little or no value unless played in hearts. So, with that in mind, the only reason to find a different strain would be extreme shape by opener. Therefore it is not forcing... if the responder likes ♠ better than ♣ he can pass. The opener had other options to show a strong 2 suited hand. a jump-reverse would be the 2 suited 19+ hand. 1♣ ... 2♥... 3♠... is a game going call. 2♠ is likely a 6-5 hand with 0 ♥. For those that think it is a splinter... Slam opposite a weak 2 heart response is not very reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Well it is clearly shape showing. 2♥ is a weak hand that is of little or no value unless played in hearts. So, with that in mind, the only reason to find a different strain would be extreme shape by opener. Therefore it is not forcing... if the responder likes ♠ better than ♣ he can pass. The opener had other options to show a strong 2 suited hand. a jump-reverse would be the 2 suited 19+ hand. 1♣ ... 2♥... 3♠... is a game going call. 2♠ is likely a 6-5 hand with 0 ♥. For those that think it is a splinter... Slam opposite a weak 2 heart response is not very reasonable.Suppose the 5 in your 6-5 hand is hearts. Now is slam reasonable? For example, suppose you pick up:Kx AJxxx --- AKxxxx You open 1♣ and partner bids 2♥ weak. Do you think you can make a slam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Suppose the 5 in your 6-5 hand is hearts. Now is slam reasonable? For example, suppose you pick up:Kx AJxxx --- AKxxxx You open 1♣ and partner bids 2♥ weak. Do you think you can make a slam? I bid 6♥ a long time ago on those cards. 2♠ is a forcing game try in something other than hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I bid 6♥ a long time ago on those cards. 2♠ is a forcing game try in something other than hearts.I did not mean to imply that I would bid 2♠ on these cards - I was merely trying to explain that making a slam opposite a weak jump shift is not necessarily unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Suppose the 5 in your 6-5 hand is hearts. Now is slam reasonable? For example, suppose you pick up:Kx AJxxx --- AKxxxx You open 1♣ and partner bids 2♥ weak. Do you think you can make a slam? You know there is a 0.001% chance that the oppo have both passed, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
operator Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 The bidding goes 1 club Pass 2 hearts Pass2 spades.... Is the 2 spade bid forcing? (edited to indicate that the 2 heart bid is preemptive...) No matter what 2H is, 2S is (or should be) 100% forcing... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Agree with 99% of the posters. 2S is clearly forcing and shows a really good hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 How can it make any sense for it to be NF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 How can it make any sense for it to be NF?With a 5026 it would be nice to able to make a nonforcing 2♠. You will rarely be strong enough to force to game and maybe you should just pass 2♥ if you have no interest in game. But you could have a hand with which you want to be in 4♠ or 5♣ if p has anything useful at all. Probably 2♠ should be forcing, though, and in any case it obviously is forcing without agreements to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceZhu Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 2♠should be forcing, because opener should have a strong hand and a heart singleton/void to keep the bidding alive outside of a heart contract.If 2♥was strong, it would definately be forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I like that 1x 1y1z is limited to 17 H. This puts a narrow range into 1x 1y2z i.e. 18-21 or thereabouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggerclub Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 ♠AKJx ♥AQx ♦x ♣Axxxx opposite ♠Qxx ♥Kxxxxx ♦xxx ♣x With this hand as Opener, a natural and forcing 2♠ seems to make perfect sense. A splinter would have focused Responder on the potential club Queen. A spade bid and then heart slam move establishes the pattern (short diamonds) and focuses the spade suit as the source of need. Exactly. A forcing bid is forcing and may conceal support, even very good support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.