Gib signoff at 5 level with 4 keycards

[lycier]

[hv=http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=lycier&s=SK8HAQ9742DK8CQJ2&wn=机器人&w=SQ932H53DJT63CT93&nn=机器人&n=SA5HKJ86DQ7CAK864&en=机器人&e=SJT764HTDA9542C75&d=e&v=o&b=&a=P1H(Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20%21H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B)P2N!(Jacoby%20-%3E%20support%3B%20balanced%20--%204+%20%21H%3B%2013+%20total%20points)P3H(Balanced%20maximum%20--%202+%20%21C%3B%202+%20%21D%3B%205+%20%21H%3B)P4N(Blackwood%20%5BH%5D%20--%204+%20%21H%3B%2014+%20total%20points)P5D(One%20or%20four%20key%20cards%20--%202+%20%21C%3B%202+%20%21D%3B%205)P5H(Signoff%20--%204+%20%21H%3B%2014+%20total%20points)PPP&p=S2S5S4SKHAH5H6HTH2H3HKD2HJD9H7D6C4C7CQC3CJC9C6C5C2CTCKS7CAD5D8S3C8S6DKD3SASTS8S9H8D4HQDJH9DTD7SJH4SQDQDA]499|350[/hv]

 

We have 4 keycards with trump Q,why 5♥ signoff?

[Bbradley62]

North doesn't know you have the trump queen, and he has no way to ask. He's probably more afraid of being off two cashing diamonds. A human should foresee this potential problem with RKC and choose to cuebid instead, but maybe GIB isn't capable of looking that far ahead.

[iandayre]

As BBradley suggests, the problem was using Blackwood in the first place with no control in an unbid suit.

[lycier]

North doesn't know you have the trump queen, and he has no way to ask. He's probably more afraid of being off two cashing diamonds. A human should foresee this potential problem with RKC and choose to cuebid instead, but maybe GIB isn't capable of looking that far ahead.

 

I disagree since my 3♥ have told him that I have extra values - balancing maximum,and generally speaking ,3♥ often shows 6-card actually.

[Antrax]

For GIB 3♥ doesn't show extra trump length, but it does show a balanced maximum, I think 18+ HCP? So GIB is looking at 35+ combined HCP, so you can't be off AK.

[Bbradley62]

I just realized that I posted the same hand twice, commenting on completely different things, so I am now combining the two posts.

 

(A) We can see the full description of 3♥ at another table...

[hv=bbo=y&lin=pn|pjbuffs,~~R10707c4,~~R10760b7,~~R1222955|st%7C%7Cmd%7C4S8KH2479QAD8KC2JQ%2CS239QH35D36TJC39T%2CS5AH68JKD7QC468KA%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%2014%7Csv%7Co%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1H%7Can%7CMajor%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C2N%7Can%7CJacoby%20-%3E%20support%3B%20balanced%20--%204%2B%20H%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C3H%7Can%7CBalanced%20maximum%20--%202%2B%20C%3B%202%2B%20D%3B%205%2B%20H%3B%202%2B%20S%3B%2018-21%20HCP%3B%2022-%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C5H%7Can%7C4%2B%20H%3B%205-%208421%20HCP%20in%20H%3B%2014%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C6H%7Can%7C2%2B%20C%3B%202%2B%20D%3B%205%2B%20H%3B%202%2B%20S%3B%2018-21%20HCP%3B%2022-%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cmc%7C12%7C]360|270[/hv]So, Antrax is right about GIB's understanding of 3♥, although I think this understanding is not standard.

BBO's step-by-step convention card called "SAYC" also says 3♥ is 18+, with 3N as 15-17, but ACBL's website shows 3N=14-15 and 3♥=16+.

 

(B) Apparently, this older version of GIB had a different reaction to the 3♥ response to J2N.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Bbradley62

[Bbradley62]

This weaker response to J2N from South prompted a different line of bidding from GIB North:

[hv=bbo=y&lin=pn|uncnr1,~~M8803hkt,~~M9751n2b,~~M10219fz|st%7C%7Cmd%7C4S8KH2479QAD8KC2JQ%2CS239QH35D36TJC39T%2CS5AH68JKD7QC468KA%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%2094%7Csv%7Co%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1H%7Can%7CMajor%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20%21H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C2N%21%7Can%7CJacoby%20-%3E%20support%3B%20balanced%20--%204%2B%20%21H%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C3N%7Can%7CBalanced%20submaximum%20--%202%2B%20%21C%3B%202%2B%20%21D%3B%205%2B%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C4C%7Can%7CCue%20bid%20--%204%2B%20%21H%3B%20%21CA%3B%2016%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C4N%7Can%7CBlackwood%20%28H%29%20--%202%2B%20%21C%3B%202%2B%20%21D%3B%205%2B%20%21H%3B%202%2B%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C5C%7Can%7CZero%20or%20three%20key%20cards%20--%204%2B%20%21H%3B%20%21CA%3B%2016%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C6H%7Can%7C2%2B%20%21C%3B%202%2B%20%21D%3B%205%2B%20%21H%3B%202%2B%20%21S%3B%2015-17%20HCP%3B%201%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CSJ%7C]360|270[/hv]

[lycier]

Apparently, an older version of GIB had a different reaction to this J2N response:

 

 

great,convincing comments.

[Lovera]

I think that needs to consider what GIB tells also : 14+ totale points, 5- in H (8421). Than in heart is probable J togheter K. Instead read 14+ as 15. Bidding 4NT GIB must have 2 Aces and this makes 11 points and for the other 4 should be almost a Q than, not having completed, another honor there is (K). It should be helpfull to you.

[lycier]

My robot is basic,advanced robot should play better,maybe there is no problem in advanced robot hand,so I suggest we don't discuss basic robot issues again in my hand.