Flame Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 After 2c-2M you suppose to pass with invitational hand, no matter how many cards you have in that major right (unless you have a 6 card minor)?For examplexKXXXXAJXXxxx1NT-2C-2S-PWhat is the logic behind the 2M response to 2c being min, as i see it the structure will work a little better when 2M is max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 After 2c-2M you suppose to pass with invitational hand, no matter how many cards you have in that major right (unless you have a 6 card minor)?For examplexKXXXXAJXXxxx1NT-2C-2S-PWhat is the logic behind the 2M response to 2c being min, as i see it the structure will work a little better when 2M is max. Isn't responder allowed to rebid 2N with that hand? If you play the direct 2M as maximum, won't you be faced with a similar problem when it goes 1N-2♣-2♦-2♥-2♠ (opener holding a 5233 minimum)? If opener is 53 in the majors and passes 2♥, you could play in a 43 heart fit instead of a 53 spade fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted February 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Isn't responder allowed to rebid 2N with that hand? If you play the direct 2M as maximum, won't you be faced with a similar problem when it goes 1N-2♣-2♦-2♥-2♠ (opener holding a 5233 minimum)? If opener is 53 in the majors and passes 2♥, you could play in a 43 heart fit instead of a 53 spade fit. No atleast not on the version presented on the forum where 2nt is non natural, asking for doublton.you are right about that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Hum.. after a quick thought, it seems better to play 1NT 2C2M as a MIN. The point is if you have a min and bid 2D, then pard might make an invitational bid and you have to refuse it and miss a 5-3 major suit fit which might even be worth game. Example: if you play 2M as max... 1NT 2C2D 3Cpass? Axx.......xxAKxxx...xxxAxx.......xxxx.........AQxxxx whereas if you play 2M as min, it will be 1NT 2C2H 4H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 HMmm. On that hand I reckon it would go 1NT 2C2H Pass How good is this game? If trumps are 4-1 you go down. If the K of clubs is offside you go down. If clubs are 4-1 you go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 That's not the point. I'm sure you can shuffle cards a bit and easily come up with a more convincing example :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 I decided not to change our 1nt opening and keep 5 card major out of it. So all these problems are over. I still dont know if old keri is better then new one.1nt-2c-2d-2nt as GF stayman or1NT-2S as the GF stayman.It seems to be more or less the sameIn another version i have on keri, after 1nt-2c-2d-2nt asks opener to show his hand rather then bid 3c for responder to show his, this have a little space adv (open can show 4-4 and 5 card minor) and also the advatage of beeing much simpler then normal old keri 2NT, but give info about opener's hand.One last thing i thought of one thing that could be an advantage over keri, playing 1nt-2c2d-2NT as invite with 6 card minor, partner will bid 3D=accept if you have clubs, 3H=accept both(or use 3H/3S/3NT for stopers or something), or else 3c.This will save some space, the small price is giving own a little more info about opener hand sometimes, i think its an improvment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 I decided not to change our 1nt opening and keep 5 card major out of it. So all these problems are over. I still dont know if old keri is better then new one.1nt-2c-2d-2nt as GF stayman or1NT-2S as the GF stayman.It seems to be more or less the sameIn another version i have on keri, after 1nt-2c-2d-2nt asks opener to show his hand rather then bid 3c for responder to show his, this have a little space adv (open can show 4-4 and 5 card minor) and also the advatage of beeing much simpler then normal old keri 2NT, but give info about opener's hand.One last thing i thought of one thing that could be an advantage over keri, playing 1nt-2c2d-2NT as invite with 6 card minor, partner will bid 3D=accept if you have clubs, 3H=accept both(or use 3H/3S/3NT for stopers or something), or else 3c.This will save some space, the small price is giving own a little more info about opener hand sometimes, i think its an improvment. i still don't understand why not just play puppet stayman... only bid 2C if you're invitational *or* if you plan on passing whatever opener rebids... the 2D gf stayman works very well on the hand whereagles posted: Axx.......xxAKxxx...xxxAxx.......xxxx.........AQxxxx as responder (playing 12-15 nt) i'm not sure i'd bid 2c invitational... yeah opener does have 7 controls with a max, but that's this time... if anything i'd bid 2nt, which relays to 3c pass/correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 I decided not to change our 1nt opening and keep 5 card major out of it. So all these problems are over. I still dont know if old keri is better then new one.1nt-2c-2d-2nt as GF stayman or1NT-2S as the GF stayman.It seems to be more or less the sameIn another version i have on keri, after 1nt-2c-2d-2nt asks opener to show his hand rather then bid 3c for responder to show his, this have a little space adv (open can show 4-4 and 5 card minor) and also the advatage of beeing much simpler then normal old keri 2NT, but give info about opener's hand.One last thing i thought of one thing that could be an advantage over keri, playing 1nt-2c2d-2NT as invite with 6 card minor, partner will bid 3D=accept if you have clubs, 3H=accept both(or use 3H/3S/3NT for stopers or something), or else 3c.This will save some space, the small price is giving own a little more info about opener hand sometimes, i think its an improvment. i still don't understand why not just play puppet stayman... only bid 2C if you're invitational *or* if you plan on passing whatever opener rebids... the 2D gf stayman works very well on the hand whereagles posted: Axx.......xxAKxxx...xxxAxx.......xxxx.........AQxxxx as responder (playing 12-15 nt) i'm not sure i'd bid 2c invitational... yeah opener does have 7 controls with a max, but that's this time... if anything i'd bid 2nt, which relays to 3c pass/correct Keri has some advantage over stayman like systems. The biggest one is opener doesnt show his hand. The most common situation over 1NT is responder having inv strengh with 4 card amjor while opener doesnt have this 4 card major.In non keri system opener will show his 4 card or lack of 4 card major before they settle down in 2/3 NT. In keri responder will show his 4 card while opener will not show his hand. There are other advantage like playing 2M on 4-3 where the rest of the field will play 2NT, which as i see it is little better. Anoter nice one is the 5-3 major fit inv strengh opposite minimum opening which we will play at the 2 level while you will play at the 3 level.I bet there are disadvantage too, but those who play keri say it works out fine for them. (those 4-3 2M are cool) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 The most common situation over 1NT is responder having inv strengh with 4 card amjor while opener doesnt have this 4 card major. In non keri system opener will show his 4 card or lack of 4 card major before they settle down in 2/3 NT. In keri responder will show his 4 card while opener will not show his hand. not always, the way i play.. 2C asks for a 5 card major, else 2D.. if 2D:2H denies 4 hearts and *maybe* has 4 spades (used to invite 2NT)2S denies 4 spades and guarantees 4 hearts Anoter nice one is the 5-3 major fit inv strengh opposite minimum opening which we will play at the 2 level while you will play at the 3 level.yes, this can be a problem (assuming responder has the 5 card major - no prob if it's opener, he just bids it over 2C) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Luke your 2c is a bit like keri 2c.But keri has 2d for transfer which i like in my system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 So what this means Jimmy is that with 4H and an invit strength hand you will be forced to play at the 3 level, whereas playing Keri you would stop at the two level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 right, if opener wanted to play in hearts rather than 2nt, it would have to be 3h... but dammit i sure do like the 2d game force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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