Is Acol Still Played in the United Kingdom?

[spencecat]

Hello,

 

I am new to this forum, and had one question to ask players who play bridge in the United Kingdom. When I played bridge in Southwest Florida, my bridge teacher told me that Acol, a British system, was being phased out in favor of SAYC. Yet I had another player tell me that Acol is still played in the UK. Is this true or not?

 

Thanks,

 

Spencer

[nige1]

I am new to this forum, and had one question to ask players who play bridge in the United Kingdom. When I played bridge in Southwest Florida, my bridge teacher told me that Acol, a British system, was being phased out in favor of SAYC. Yet I had another player tell me that Acol is still played in the UK. Is this true or not?

Welcome to the forum, SpenceCat. S J Simon regarded Acol as an attitude of mind rather than a system. In my experience, most British Bridge-teachers teach Acol, in one form or another. (Strong twos have mostly been superseded by Benjamin or Multi/Lucas). Few employ SAYC but 2/1 is gaining converts.

[spencecat]

Many thanks for clarifying this. I am American, so I know little regarding Acol. I do know that Bridge is slightly different in the United Kingdom and in Europe- it seems to be, in some regards, more regulated than the US (as in the restriction on notrump overcalls) but also less regulated (as in the Multi, which is not allowed except in a few high-level tournaments.)

[helene_t]

Here in the north of England it is extremely rare to find

a pair that doesn't play acol. Maybe 5% or so play five card majors but except for international experts even they retain acol logic for the rest of the auction so only the opening bid is non-acol.

 

2/1 enjoys some popularity among strong players in the south but even there acol is what most club players play.

 

SAYC doesn't exist in the uk I think at least I have never heard of it. I know a few pairs who play acol with 5cm and strong nt and call it sayc, though

 

As for restrictions: there are a few very bizare things that are banned in some places. For example a 2h opening that shows a weak hand with hearts or spades can only be played in top events and in a few countries. England is somewhat more restrictive and for example does not allow artificial 1of a major openings in most events. But no countries have restrictions on responses except for novice events in England. So we are definitely more liberal over here

[paulg]

Many British players who play online have a passing familiarity with SAYC, through necessity rather than desire. Most of the players in the Acol Club on BBO (http://acolatbbo.org.uk/) are British although anyone and everyone who plays some form of Acol is welcome.

[Cyberyeti]

Acol is still played in various bits of Europe, although Dutch Acol is quite different to the British form. I played a congress in Pula a couple of years ago where the only Acol pair we played were Czech.

 

5 card majors or 5 card spade are increasing, but in our local competitions we have one polish club pair, one playing some swedish system, one playing culbertson and everybody else plays some form of Acol, mainly weak NT 4 card majors but by no means all.

[Oof Arted]

:rolleyes:

 

There are I am glad to say still quite a lot of us 'Dinasours' who play 'Old Fashioned' Acol :D

 

As for Sick And Yellow Colour Yuk the very thought makes me want to Throw up ;)

[spencecat]

I remember reading a book by Ron Klinger(who happens to be Australian, but is part of the commonwealth nonetheless). He used Acol. I guess some Commonwealth countries use it too. If I ever play bridge abroad, it is best that I get acquainted with the governing laws of the country in question, as well as the most common bidding system in that country. Sometimes the laws and play are virtually identical to the US (as in Canada), other times they are quite different (as in the United Kingdom.) Poland is the most fascinating- many players there play a weak and strong combined club, called Wspolny Jezyk (Polish Club, to non-Polish speakers.) I think that system is by far my favorite. I will have to find an online bridge partner from Poland so we can play the same system.

[spencecat]

When I said "favorite system", I meant thay Polish Club was interesting,not necessarily my favorite. From what I hear, non-Polish players do not enjoy it, probably because it is so byzantine.

[Cyberyeti]

When I said "favorite system", I meant thay Polish Club was interesting,not necessarily my favorite. From what I hear, non-Polish players do not enjoy it, probably because it is so byzantine.

 

The tournament I mentioned in Pula, about half the people we played were playing Polish club (most of the rest were playing something much closer to standard American or 2/1), it seems to be pretty popular across Eastern Europe.

[Zelandakh]

When I said "favorite system", I meant thay Polish Club was interesting,not necessarily my favorite. From what I hear, non-Polish players do not enjoy it, probably because it is so byzantine.

One of my former partners, who is English, learned to speak Polish because she wanted to start playing the system. It was closest generic system available to what we were playing together, which admittedly was itself fairly labyrinthine. But to say that non-Polish players do not enjoy it is far from the truth.

 

As for Acol, outside of London still completely dominant in the UK. When you move up to expert circles that changes of course but SAYC is played at those levels even less than Acol. Outside of the UK, Acol also has followings in Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Holland, Germany and the Far East - probably some others too.

[Vampyr]

Many thanks for clarifying this. I am American, so I know little regarding Acol. I do know that Bridge is slightly different in the United Kingdom and in Europe- it seems to be, in some regards, more regulated than the US (as in the restriction on notrump overcalls) but also less regulated (as in the Multi, which is not allowed except in a few high-level tournaments.)

 

I know of no instance in which UK system regulations are more restrictive than ACBL.

[barmar]

I know of no instance in which UK system regulations are more restrictive than ACBL.

I wonder if he's confusing the level of detail in the EBU regulations with the number of restrictions. The GCC fits on one piece of paper, so it might appear that we aren't very restrictive. But appearances can be deceiving. Since anything that isn't natural or explicitly allowed is prohibited, we disallow quite a bit.

[spencecat]

I wonder if he's confusing the level of detail in the EBU regulations with the number of restrictions. The GCC fits on one piece of paper, so it might appear that we aren't very restrictive. But appearances can be deceiving. Since anything that isn't natural or explicitly allowed is prohibited, we disallow quite a bit.

 

 

Yes, that is correct. I was not asking about the level of detail regarding restrictions, but rather the level of restriction in Europe as opposed to the United States and Canada (ACBL regulations). I definitely know that tournaments in the US and Canada are rather restrictive with regards to some systems. In fact, from what I hear, Multi-Landy (which I like better than Cappelletti) is banned in ACBL regulations, as the 2♦ overcall must show a suit.

[Finch]

The only people I've ever seen playing SA in f2f bridge in England have been Americans. The top pairs generally play a sophisticated form of Acol or, more commonly, one of some sort of 2/1, Polish Club (or other similarish systems such as Carrot Club) or some form of Strong Club. But most people who play something called '2/1' don't stick to what might be called 'US Standard', there are usually a lot of gadgets.

 

p.s. on system regulation - what Vampyr said. The only place in the world I know that is at least as restrictive as the US is Japan. Most places in Europe are somewhere between more liberal and very much more liberal (e.g. Sweden).

[Vampyr]

The only people I've ever seen playing SA in f2f bridge in England have been Americans.

 

I have seen people who say they are playing Standard American, but they have generally just incorporated a strong NT and 5-card majors into an Acol-style approach.

[akwoo]

I have seen people who say they are playing Standard American, but they have generally just incorporated a strong NT and 5-card majors into an Acol-style approach.

 

Actually, a lot of weaker US players (especially for casual non-competitive, non-duplicate games) also say they are playing Standard American but are playing Acol with 5 card majors and strong NT.

[paulg]

Actually, a lot of weaker US players (especially for casual non-competitive, non-duplicate games) also say they are playing Standard American but are playing Acol with 5 card majors and strong NT.

Coincidently a few weaker UK players also say that are playing Acol when they are playing 5-card majors and strong no-trump, most frequently when they are playing Benjy twos. As nige1 said, Acol is often regarded as an attitude rather than a system.

[WellSpyder]

I have seen people who say they are playing Standard American, but they have generally just incorporated a strong NT and 5-card majors into an Acol-style approach.

 

Actually, a lot of weaker US players (especially for casual non-competitive, non-duplicate games) also say they are playing Standard American but are playing Acol with 5 card majors and strong NT.

What are the key differences between SA and "Acol" with 5M and strong NT?

[MickyB]

What are the key differences between SA and "Acol" with 5M and strong NT?

 

The former uses a technique known as "forcing bids".

[gordontd]

What are the key differences between SA and "Acol" with 5M and strong NT?

The strength and forcing nature of 2/1 responses, with various consequences.

[Zelandakh]

And in this part of Germany a pair playing "Standard American" will generally be playing Forum D except for opening 1♣ instead of 1♦ with 4=4=3=2 shape. The common theme seems to be that wherever you live "Standard American" just means some variant of the local standard.

[Vampyr]

The strength and forcing nature of 2/1 responses, with various consequences.

 

Also, less importantly, Acol may include between 0 and 3 weak twos, even Lucas Twos... "Acol with a Multi" is aometimes heard as the opponents' initial description of their methods. Also various treatments after 1NT openings, our and theirs. Generally lots of variations are possible.

 

Acol is less a system than a state of mind...

[Finch]

What are the key differences between SA and "Acol" with 5M and strong NT?

 

the two biggest differences are:

SA: a 2/1 promises a rebid; not in Acol

SA: 1X-3X and 1X-2NT are strong and forcing; in Acol they are limit raises and non-forcing

 

 

Traditionally Acol had strong 2 openings too.

 

There are other differences, but they are minor.

 

p.s. while Acol is a state of mind, IMO it is a state of mind that includes 4-card majors which are a fundamental part.

[Zelandakh]

p.s. while Acol is a state of mind, IMO it is a state of mind that includes 4-card majors which are a fundamental part.

So you are excluding Swiss Acol? Round here that is the most common version. The first systems I learned were Culbertson (4 card majors) and Acol (with 5 card majors and a 16-18 NT range) so perhaps I think about it a little differently. I think that the idea of 4 card majors and/or a weak NT being a fundamental part of Acol is a very British attitude. The latter is obviously wrong (since variable was very common early on) while there are enough forms with one or both 1M openings promising 5 to invalidate the former too. To me it is no different from saying a 15-17 NT range is fundamental to 2/1 or that a 14-16 range is fundamental to Precision. On the other hand, add an "English" in there before the "Acol" and I am right there with you.