kfay Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 [hv=pc=n&s=saq8743hj6dq7ca65&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=1c1sp2hp]133|200|2♥ is non-forcing. Apologies if anyone is offended by that.[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 If pard were a passed hand, this would be an easy pass/2♠. As it stands, you can try 1. 3♣ + 3♠. The cue in this situation shows a decent opener or better. Followed by 3♠ you finish the description, albeit at a high level.2. 2NT. This hides the 6th spade but is spot on values (12-14).3. 2♠. This is an underbid, but can work well. I think I go for 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 If pard were a passed hand, this would be an easy pass/2♠. As it stands, you can try 1. 3♣ + 3♠. The cue in this situation shows a decent opener or better. Followed by 3♠ you finish the description, albeit at a high level.2. 2NT. This hides the 6th spade but is spot on values (12-14).3. 2♠. This is an underbid, but can work well. I think I go for 2. I think a free NT rebid by an overcaller shows a better hand than 12-14, more like 14-16 - maybe 1NT could show a little less. I admit I haven't ever seen much written about this auction though. So you could be right about what is standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Need to know a bit more about our style. If for example my overcall shows ostensibly 7-16 and 2♥ covers the whole semipositive range, it would be something like 9-16. But probably that range is too wide to be playable. Anyway, I would like to show a bit of extra values while at the same time avoid commiting to a particular strain. 2NT feels wrong with the 6th spade and if we belong in 3NT, probably partner needs to declare. I'll go for 3♣ but it is probably an overbid. This problem may be a good case for playing intermediate jump overcalls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akwoo Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I'm assuming 2♥ shows roughly 10-15. What's the difference between an immediate 3♠ and 3♣ followed by 3♠? Should it be general strength (i.e. invite with 11-13ish vs game force with 14-16ish) or solidity of the suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Easy 2♠ if 2♥ is NF as advertised. I understand we have 13 beans but I have seen much better beans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 2S here as well. We don't have to bid, so this should convey something in the light of 2H being NF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 2s Assume 2h shows less than an opening hand. xx..AQxxxx...Kxx....xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Yes I think you are right, 2♠ is enough. I am a bit worried if it shows extras or not but in any case, 3♣ (or 2NT) is likely to take us too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Deleted. (By the way, the "Delete My Vote" button is one of the greatest advances since the cell phone) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 2S here as well. We don't have to bid, so this should convey something in the light of 2H being NF.We agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 2S here as well. We don't have to bid, so this should convey something in the light of 2H being NF.Would you pass with a 5044 hand of less strength than this then? I have never played 2♥ as non-forcing here so perhaps this works out ok - feels strange to me coming from the forcing side though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 2♠ shows a hand too good to WJO in my book, which seems fine, although raising is tempting too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I'm assuming 2♥ shows roughly 10-15. I suspect you are alone in playing 2♥ as non-forcing but it is extremely unplayable with an upper end >11 and should at least be constructive (8?). If that's not the case, ditch the method. That makes this a choice between pass and 2♠ which I would bid hoping to catch 2-card support (and maybe game) or play a 6-1 fit instead of 5-2 losing out to playing a 6-1 fit instead of a 6-2 but if partner passes me out here their "constructive" 2♥ bid with a stiff spade is questionable at best. You might get better answers if you spell out the range/type of hand that bids a non-forcing 2♥. It's very much a minority treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Would you pass with a 5044 hand of less strength than this then? I have never played 2♥ as non-forcing here so perhaps this works out ok - feels strange to me coming from the forcing side though. Depends. If i'd make such an overcall I'd probably have a rebid prepared for this situation. But yeah with a dead minimum i'd pass and maybe pull later if they start doubling. I don't play 2H NF so I'm making this up on the spot lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 2♠ shows a hand too good to WJO in my book, which seems fine, although raising is tempting too. Yup 3H crossed my mind, but I have no clue what a 2H might look like at it's weakest and strongest ranges. Since I don't know that, 2S seems more honest, it should be constructive and keeps the bidding open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Probably 2sp shows extras if it is your style to bid 2sp on any six card suit. With 5044you just have to blame the loss on the system. You can't design around that specific hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Probably 2sp shows extras if it is your style to bid 2sp on any six card suit. IMO if your suit isn't good enough to WJO then it's no big deal to just pass 2H now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 IMO if your suit isn't good enough to WJO then it's no big deal to just pass 2H now. I'm glad you didn't go so far as to actually recommend pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Why should 2♠ show a hand "too good for WJO"? Can't you have something like JTxxxxxxAKJxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Why should 2♠ show a hand "too good for WJO"? Can't you have something like JTxxxxxxAKJxxThat hand is an obvious pass. Thinking of bidding 2♠ means that you want to show your hand rather than to listen to what partner is saying. Partner bids a non forcing 2♥. That means that he doesn't like spades (he could have chosen a very non forcing pass) but he is offering a decent heart suit since he thinks that will play better. So, if you refuse his offer, you need to have a reason. JTxxxx is not a reason. Just picture partner with a typical:xKJTxxxxxKxxx or even xKQJxxxxxKxxx (which is a hand that should pass 1♠) It is clear that a heart contract will play better than a spade contract. Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 A rebid of 2S seems what I am worth. I fail to appreciate why 2H is not F to 2S or 3H, pass would have been NF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Nf doesn't mean dead. It means semipositive. You bid 2h with a hand too strong to pass yet too weak to force beyond 2h.If you play wide ranging overcalls and won't consider transfer advances this is the only playable method. If partner routinely overcall on 8-counts what am I supposed to do with a misfitting 11-count if 2h is forcing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Did you consider a 1NT advance Helene? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Did you consider a 1NT advance Helene? :)Isn't that supposed to be natural NF? I wouldn't do that with six hearts and a small doubleton in opps suit, although 1NT doesn't guarantee a stopper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts