Extreme shape and weak hand

[Cthulhu D]

[hv=pc=n&e=st98632hat743d9c3]133|100[/hv]

 

Playing a system of pre-empts with 2H as both majors (Ekrens style) and 2S as a good pre-empt in a major and 3M as a bad pre-empt in a major, what is your plan for bidding this hand?

 

If you pass, what is your anticipated strategy A) Generally and B) specifically if your LHO bid hearts?

Edited June 20, 2014 by Cthulhu D

[whereagles]

If you're lucky to be playing Erkens 2♦ I suggest you use it. Then:

 

- If pard happens to prefer spades or raise hearts to 3, drive on to 4 on your own.

- If he passes 2♥ and opponents butt-in, bid spades or NT one more time.

- If opponents bid and pard passes, bid 3♠ or 3NT next round to show the extra shape.

[gszes]

you are stretching the original concept some but since you are near the

bottom of your range the extra distribution should not be harmful to your

side. Once in a while you will end up in hearts when you belong in spades

(especially below game level) but you will gain many more times than that

in preemptive value alone when p has a fit. Add another Q to the majors and

I would pass and await developments.

 

For purposes of bidding if p issues an invite I would pretend I was 54 in the

majors in order to emphasize the spades but I would not create a game force

though I would bid 4s if p invited in spades or even made a preemptive 3s bid

(I would not bid 4h though)

[mycroft]

I would have to know what my expected 2♥ call would look like (and what's a sample "bad" preempt and what's a sample "good" preempt) to know what to do.

 

I'm 6-5 with intermediates; that makes up for a lot of "just the A". But given what I know about sample Ekren players, this could both be much weaker than expected or "partner's never going to take me for this much strength" as well as "well, this is sort of what partner would expect" or "this is on the bottom edge, but he's not going to blame me for opening it when 4M goes down".

[Cthulhu D]

For the Ekren's bidders, what do you do when the auction continues:

 

[hv=pc=n&e=st98632hat743d9c3&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=2h(Ekrens)p2n(Inquiry)3dp(Suggests%20a%20min)3nd4cp4ddp]133|200[/hv]

 

 

I would have to know what my expected 2♥ call would look like (and what's a sample "bad" preempt and what's a sample "good" preempt) to know what to do.

 

I'm 6-5 with intermediates; that makes up for a lot of "just the A". But given what I know about sample Ekren players, this could both be much weaker than expected or "partner's never going to take me for this much strength" as well as "well, this is sort of what partner would expect" or "this is on the bottom edge, but he's not going to blame me for opening it when 4M goes down".

 

Anything 4-4 to 5-5 (continuations make no provision for more shape than 5/5). Vul vs not our general agreement is that partner will have something contextually decent first in (say xxx xx KJxx QTxx as a dead minimum. A 'max' in response to an inquiry would be an 8 count with concentrated values. Compensating distribution lets you offset HCP a bit). Really this hand has more shape and less HCP than the partnership expects.

[PhilKing]

For the Ekren's bidders, what do you do when the auction continues:

 

[hv=pc=n&e=st98632hat743d9c3&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=2h(Ekrens)p2n(Inquiry)3dp(Suggests%20a%20min)3nd4cp4ddp]133|200[/hv]

 

 

 

I think you need to pose this as a separate opening lead problem.

[PhantomSac]

Isn't 2H often 5-4 in the majors? If so, passing over 3D to "suggest a min" with 6-5 feels quite wrong, but I have never played these methods. I expect I would always want to be in a game if partner bid 2N and I was 6-5. I would also like to let my partner know that I had extreme shape if there is going to be further competition, maybe 4D over 3D?

[whereagles]

Min? This hand is an obvious max :)

[gszes]

The 3d bid has made our hand look a lot more like a max

than a min so I would take action immediately over 3d (assuming

x showed 55 I would choose that) and if x is penalty oriented

I would choose to show 54. If p cannot choose what to do over

that sequence we are in trouble anyway. If I chose to pass over

3d I would now have to either pass (which feels downright ugly)

or make the head scratching bid of 4h which should show 55 and a

diamond void (greatly fearing 4dx). I would go for the 4h bid but

not be happy I did not try something sooner.

[Zelandakh]

Isn't 2H often 5-4 in the majors?

Often 4-4 in fact. I think Opener should be able to show the 5-5 shape over the interference - that cannot even hurt if the enquiry always shows INV+ values. Is there a reason to avoid something like P = min 4-4/5-4; X = 5-5; 3M = 5M-4oM max; 3NT = 4-4 max? Heck you could even extend this to 6-5s if you wanted with 4♣ = 5♠6♥; and 4♦ = 6♠5♥, although having these show 5-5 and a void is a reasonable alternatve.