Slam Points (3-2-1) in marginal positives

[shevek]

Preamble

 

We had this good auction.

 

[hv=pc=n&w=sak7hak6dak654ca7&e=sqt6h95djt832ck84&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1c(16+)p1d(0-7)p1h(19+)p2s(5-7%20bal%2C%20no%20M)p2n(relay)p3c(5%20diamonds)p3d(relay)p3s(3-2-5-3)p4c(SP%20ask)p4d(3%20SPs)p4h(DCB)p4s(no%20D)p4n(DCB)p5h(S%2C%20C%2C%20no%20H)p7dppp]266|200[/hv]

 

East showed 5-7 pts, 3-2-5-3, 3 SPs (A=3, K=2, Q=1) no ♦ or ♥ honour, therefore ♠Q & ♣K.

All good but West waited anxiously for dummy to track, concerned that partner might have bid 2♠ on

 

♠QJx ♥xx ♦JTxxx ♣Qxx

 

That is, a hand with 6 HCP but only 2 SPs.

 

East-West must make a choice.

Either to miss the occasional perfect slam

or require responder to give the second negative (0-4) on all hands without 3 SPs.

It seems safe to bid 1♠ then catch up with 2 SPs.

 

It may be different with positives to 1♣, which we play as 8+ pts, nearly GF.

 

♠x ♥AQJxxx ♦JTxx ♣xx

 

is a positive but our base for Slam Points is 5.

4 SP positives are quite rare so you can't afford to set aside a step to show that strength.

Here you presumably show a positive then min, then hope relayer can cater for a slight lack of AKQs.

 

Balanced 8-counts can afford to start with a negative if sub-minimum in SPs.

 

♠Axxx ♥QJx ♦JTx ♣xxx

 

4 SPs so 1♦ looks better. Throw in ♠J and you give a positive and hope for the best. Is that right?

You can see opener bidding 6♠ (by you) with

 

♠KQxxx ♥xx ♦AKQxx ♣A

 

"knowing" your 5 SPs were ♠A and ♥K.

(OK, this ignore that opener might be able to ask for AK controls instead)

 

What's the correct approach?

Gamble or guess those slams?

Or underbid by giving more non-descriptive negatives that you'd like?

[straube]

I tend to want to meet my base so as to avoid this sort of angst. If I were to cheat at all it would be an an unbalanced hand and not a 5332. Have you thought to lower your QP range here to 2 to 4?

[awm]

I would not advise lying about QP in a relay auction. I'd much rather lie about the overall strength (i.e. treat as double negative and hope to recover). You may want to rethink your QP ranges; there are a lot of 2QP hands in the semi-positive range.

[PrecisionL]

C3: Copious Canape Club

1♣ (16+) - 1♦ (0-7 hcp) -

1♥ {(a) 4+♥, or (b) 2+♥ & 20+ hcp} - 2♦ (5-7 hcp 0-3♠ & 0-2♥) -

3♦ (SAB-3) - 3NT (3+♦ & 0-2 Control) -

4♣ (CAB) - 4♥ (K♣) -

4♠ (CAB) - 5♦ (Q♠) -

6♦ (Can't have another Q, doesn't know about 5-cd ♦ fit) - - -

[WGF_Flame]

We play the same system but will be positive also with 2Qs.

We also play king parity which might have solve this problem here but could lead you too high.

those 1c-1d relay beginning 2 steps higher then normal aren't fun we even consider changing to natural.