2C-2D-3C-3D

[manudude03]

This is a fairly simple auction which I don't think I have ever discussed with anyone. [hv=pc=n&e=sakq5hadqj5cakq96&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=2cp2dp3cp3dp]133|200[/hv]. What do you play 3D by partner here, and what do you bid now?

[helene_t]

If you play multi with strong options, then 2♣ followed by 3♣ can show clubs and a fourcard major. 2♣ followed by 3♦ would be clubs without a 4-card major, then.

 

If 2♣ is your only strong opening then 3♣ neither denies or shows, but 3♦ asks nevertheless.

[Zelandakh]

A popular modern agreement is for 3♦ to be Staymanic to find a 4-4 major fit while a direct 3M call requires 5. That is what I would initially expect with a youthful expert partner. With a lifetime B/I from the club it is going to be natural and you just guess what to do over 3M. In any case, if we are unsure we can deal with either case by bidding 3♠ now and continuing 4♦ over 3NT.

[kenrexford]

A popular modern agreement is for 3♦ to be Staymanic to find a 4-4 major fit while a direct 3M call requires 5. That is what I would initially expect with a youthful expert partner. With a lifetime B/I from the club it is going to be natural and you just guess what to do over 3M. In any case, if we are unsure we can deal with either case by bidding 3♠ now and continuing 4♦ over 3NT.

 

"Staymanic" sounds like a bridge convention that would be described when you play Stairway to Heaven backwards.

 

I use the term "waiting," as it expresses nothing useful but simply allows Opener to bid on intelligently. 4-card major bids by Opener seem very intelligent, though.

 

 

 

[blackshoe]

Opener has a game force with clubs and a second suit. Responder has fewer than two controls and wants to know where opener's second suit is.

[whereagles]

Being so cramped in space, 3♦ does sound a bit of a "you happen to have a side major, pard?" kind of bid.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

For us 2D promises 1-2 tricks, the dead hands bid 2H instead of 3D.

We usually avoid opening 2C 2-suited, but 64 is certainly valid.

 

In this context 3D showes values, in contrast to 3H / 3S, which would

show 5+. But waiting, in case nothing really nice appeals, sound similar

good.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[steve2005]

what if your not playing 2♥ as a bust and not playing a multi 2♦?

the poster didn't mentioned any system and there are lots of ways to play over 2♣.

What do you do with 0 pts?

[mike777]

This is a fairly simple auction which I don't think I have ever discussed with anyone. [hv=pc=n&e=sakq5hadqj5cakq96&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=2cp2dp3cp3dp]133|200[/hv]. What do you play 3D by partner here, and what do you bid now?

 

 

2d=art/gf promises a random a or k

3c=long clubs, 3 loser hand.(in this case you have extras)

3d=natural

 

now I will just bid 4h rkc for diamonds.

[Cyberyeti]

I must admit I voted assuming the old fashioned 2♦ 0-7 negative as is common over here, in that case 3♦ is the double negative.

[helene_t]

We had a thread not so long ago about using the kokish relay to distinguish hands with and without a fourcard major. I can't find it :(

[kenrexford]

We had a thread not so long ago about using the kokish relay to distinguish hands with and without a fourcard major. I can't find it :(

 

That was probably what i called Rexfordized Kokish. You can google that term.

 

[fromageGB]

I must admit I voted assuming the old fashioned 2♦ 0-7 negative as is common over here, in that case 3♦ is the double negative.

Not necessarily true. I play 2♦ as negative (but"new-fashioned" negative : no Ace or King), and 3♦ is a relay for opener to clarify hand.

[blackshoe]

So the correct answer to "what does this auction mean" is "it depends on your partnership agreements". If, as I suspect may be the case, the partnership has the agreements that 2♣ shows "22+ HCP or 8 1/2 playing tricks" and that 2♦ is "negative" (or "waiting") and nothing else, then I submit that the meaning of 3♣ is "natural, 8 1/2 playing tricks" and the meaning of 3♦ is "undiscussed". Note: I say "8 1/2 playing tricks" because that's what people say, when what they mean is "8 1/2 or more playing tricks".

 

If the question is "what should this auction mean?" the answer requires deeper discussion than the above. For example, is 3♣ forcing to game, or just forcing one round, or forcing to some particular level? I've seen it played both ways, and I've seen it undiscussed (which IMO is nuts, but it happens). Is 3♦ a second negative, or not?

[helene_t]

Opener has a game force with clubs and a second suit. Responder has fewer than two controls and wants to know where opener's second suit is.

What would opener rebid with clubs and no second suit? Chose between 3NT and 4♣ as appropriate?

[blackshoe]

What would opener rebid with clubs and no second suit? Chose between 3NT and 4♣ as appropriate?

3♦. :-)

 

Note: with diamonds and a GF, with or without a second suit, he would open 2♦ (Mexican). The rebid structure is then the same: 3♣ shows diamonds and another suit, 3♦ shows a single suiter.

[helene_t]

I bet you just invented that system after reading my first post :)

[blackshoe]

I bet you just invented that system after reading my first post :)

Thanks for the compliment, but it wasn't me.

[steve2005]

I was just reading an article by Larry Cohen about responding to 2♣ using 2♦ as waiting and cheaper minor (in this case 3♦) as 2nd negative

 

Cohen article

 

I don't see why you cant have it both ways. yes 3♦ is negative but if opener has a GF hand with a 4-card major they bid 3♥/3♠. I don't see a problem with responder also having some values with a 4-card major making ostensibly a 2nd negative bid.

 

A more difficult question is what you do over 2♣-2♦-3♦-3♥ ?

[Zelandakh]

A more difficult question is what you do over 2♣-2♦-3♦-3♥ ?

You play 3♦ as denying a 4 card major.

[PrecisionL]

3♦. :-)

 

Note: with diamonds and a GF, with or without a second suit, he would open 2♦ (Mexican). The rebid structure is then the same: 3♣ shows diamonds and another suit, 3♦ shows a single suiter.

The new improved Mexican 2♦ (Pit Bulls bridge site):

 

2

♣

- 2

♦

- 3

♣

is clubs only! no 2nd suit.

2

♣

- 2

♦

- 3

♦

is 6

♣

& 4

♦

.

Reference: http://www.edmontonb...2%20Suiters.htm

 

http://www.edmontonb...%20Diamonds.htm

[Finch]

Without discussion, 3D is natural (in general: without discussion or agreement, bids are natural).

I play 3C as game forcing and 3D as asking for a 4-card major. ('neutral' is too strong: if responder doesn't have interest in the majors, responder bids 3NT)