Lots of points; few controls

[whereagles]

Opener will not have 4 spades here and with 5 spades Responder would have chosen another route. So 3♠ is not needed to find a spade fit. Instead it makes to play it either as agreeing hearts or as a transfer showing 5+ clubs.

 

I was thinking of regular stayman: opener can still have spades here, unless you play that 2NT-3♣-3NT shows both majors.

[dboxley]

I assume you don't have a way to look for minor 44 fits or this wouldn't be a problem. I bid 3♣ and over:

 

3♦: 4NT

3♥: 4S (it's either kickback or splinter, I don't care which)

3♠: 4NT

[dboxley]

3C followed by 3NT over 3D/S. Make a st over 3H.

 

Wow, that's a pretty pessimistic view. Not typical of you.

[Zelandakh]

I was thinking of regular stayman: opener can still have spades here, unless you play that 2NT-3♣-3NT shows both majors.

In regular Stayman 2NT - 3♣; 3♥ - 3NT shows 4 spades so the 3♠ rebid is still idle in a natural sense.

[mikeh]

If partner happens to bid hearts, then 4NT is RKCB yes.

 

not to many good players....it is standard, at least in NA (and I suspect elsewhere) to play that one plays 4N as quantitative

[gnasher]

I'd make whatever bid I'm supposed to make with 4-4 in the minors. Even if we have a heart fit, it's not that likely that we'll want to play there. Holding ♠Q makes it quite likely that we can throw away our small hearts on spades, but we can't do that if hearts are trumps.

[Finch]

In regular Stayman 2NT - 3♣; 3♥ - 3NT shows 4 spades so the 3♠ rebid is still idle in a natural sense.

 

Not really. 3NT is non-forcing with 4 spades, so you do want to bid 3S on a slam try with spades. If you have some 4234 good hand you want to bid 3S, then 4C over 3NT.

[banrock]

Myself & P play 3♣ over 2NT is singleton ♠ (3 ♦ is singleton ♥) reasoning is after 2NT (20-22 pts must be 4333 for our system any other low 20 count we open 2♣ and rebid 2NT) we find that keeping the ♥ & ♠ for natural bids wastes far less space, and (lets be honest) most times opposite 20-22 flat with any 4-9 pt hand you'd prob want to be in 3NT anyway, with 10 plus (as in this case) you'd be investigating slam or looking to escape in minor game so why not get lots of bids off your chest with just one ! There is always pass available for minimum hands. So 2NT-3♣-3NT is don't worry about ♠ leave me in it unless you have a very good reason, 2NT-3♣-3♥ means 4♥and semi-stop in ♠ and can be passed or raised (with 4), or 3NT if singleton ♠ is honour card or /4♣/♦ with 5 card minor, and 2NT-3♣-3♠ is pick a minor level dependent on point count, 0-4 4 level 5-9 5 level with 3NT still available as slam interest in minor.

[Zelandakh]

Not really. 3NT is non-forcing with 4 spades, so you do want to bid 3S on a slam try with spades. If you have some 4234 good hand you want to bid 3S, then 4C over 3NT.

Do you think it makes sense to assign the meaning of 4 spades to both of our cheapest calls? Surely better that either 3♠ covers both of these hand types (and 3NT becomes artificial) or to make 3♠ artificial and cover the Baro-type hand another way.

 

 

Myself & P play 3♣ over 2NT is singleton ♠ (3 ♦ is singleton ♥) reasoning is after 2NT (20-22 pts must be 4333 for our system

Do you think the response structure for an opening 2NT showing specifically 4333 shape is meaningful in comparison with one that can be any balanced hand plus a few 4441s?

[Finch]

Do you think it makes sense to assign the meaning of 4 spades to both of our cheapest calls? Surely better that either 3♠ covers both of these hand types (and 3NT becomes artificial) or to make 3♠ artificial and cover the Baro-type hand another way.

 

 

This is in the context of playing 'normal Stayman' in response to 2NT. If you want to start playing artificial continuations, then you are probably not playing 'normal Stayman' to start with.

[cherdano]

I'd make whatever bid I'm supposed to make with 4-4 in the minors. Even if we have a heart fit, it's not that likely that we'll want to play there. Holding ♠Q makes it quite likely that we can throw away our small hearts on spades, but we can't do that if hearts are trumps.

I also think this might be best.

 

I certainly don't understand bidding stayman, then making a slam try over 3♥, but signing off over 3♦. A 3♦ response (=>minor suit fit promised!) seems much better news than a 3♥ response.

[waldorf1]

Playing MP Pairs, partner opens 2NT (ostensibly 20-22 HCP), and you hold ♠Q ♥T963 ♦KJ82 ♣KQ95. What's your bidding plan? eg if you are going to start with 3♣, what do you intend to do over each of partner's possible responses?

[waldorf1]

I have found that without either hand holding a five-card (or lonter) suit, it generally takes a combined holding of 34 HCP to bid a slam that is over 50%. The popular requirement of 33 HCP comes from antiquity, because it simply ensures that the partnership is not off two aces. With 33, the slam will almost always require a finesse, and frequently a little extra, too, so you will be in a 45% slam at best. Therefore, I would never consider 6NT on this hand.

 

With four small hearts, I would definitely use (Puppet) Stayman, but finding a 4-4 heart fit doesn't necessarily make slam a good bet, either. First of all, partner's hearts almost certainly need to be AKJx or better, and even then the slam will almost certainly be on the heart finesse AND a 3-2 break, because there will probably be one loser in the side suits.

 

So I would be quite conservative in a heart contract. Maybe the way to go is to look for a 4-4 MINOR suit fit and ignore hearts, by starting with 3S. That seems to me to offer the best chance, as some losing hearts may well be discarded.

[waldorf1]

I have found that without either hand holding a five-card (or lonter) suit, it generally takes a combined holding of 34 HCP to bid a slam that is over 50%. The popular requirement of 33 HCP comes from antiquity, because it simply ensures that the partnership is not off two aces. With 33, the slam will almost always require a finesse, and frequently a little extra, too, so you will be in a 45% slam at best. Therefore, I would never consider 6NT on this hand.

 

With four small hearts, I would definitely use (Puppet) Stayman, but finding a 4-4 heart fit doesn't necessarily make slam a good bet, either. First of all, partner's hearts almost certainly need to be AKJx or better, and even then the slam will almost certainly be on the heart finesse AND a 3-2 break, because there will probably be one loser in the side suits.

 

So I would be quite conservative in a heart contract. Maybe the way to go is to look for a 4-4 MINOR suit fit and ignore hearts, by starting with 3S. That seems to me to offer the best chance, as some losing hearts may well be discarded.