What do you return?

[Walddk]

[hv=d=w&v=e&e=sq96ha8daq3cq10984&s=skj1073h754dk85ca6]266|200|Scoring: IMP

W: 3NT

Lead: S5[/hv]

 

My (possible) double-squeeze in 6NT was apparently too easy (wd Jlall/Fred), so here is a defensive problem. Hopefully a little more challenging.

 

West opened 1♥ and East responded 2♣ that was raised to 3♣. Now 3♦ by East and 3NT from West ended the auction.

 

Your dream partner leads ♠5 which you can read as highest from 2 or middle from 3. ♠9 from dummy, you insert the 10, and declarer wins his ace. At trick 2 West leads a diamond to dummy's queen and your king, North showing an even number.

 

What do you return and why?

 

Roland

[Guest Jlall]

I would shift to a low club playing declarer for something such as

 

Ax

KQJxx

Jxx

Jxx

 

If this is his hand any non spade play now will set him, but a low club shift would set him 3 vulnerable, and I feel confident declarer has solid hearts and no club king to be playing a diamond to the queen at trick 2. Nothing else makes sense.

[flytoox]

I would shift to a low club playing declarer for something such as

 

Ax

KQJxx

Jxx

Jxx

 

If this is his hand any non spade play now will set him, but a low club shift would set him 3 vulnerable, and I feel confident declarer has solid hearts and no club king to be playing a diamond to the queen at trick 2. Nothing else makes sense.

Cannot agree more. Small club should get it. I think declarer perhaps has DT as well.

[joker_gib]

I would shift to a low club playing declarer for something such as

 

Ax

KQJxx

Jxx

Jxx

 

If this is his hand any non spade play now will set him, but a low club shift would set him 3 vulnerable, and I feel confident declarer has solid hearts and no club king to be playing a diamond to the queen at trick 2. Nothing else makes sense.

Of course small club seems to be right but I don't think that the opener should have raised clubs with that hand which is a clear 2♥ bid, isn't it ?

[sceptic]

return the J spades

 

logic behind this is opps have to cover with the QS

 

Then East has to play away from the good Q diamond trick (no good if your p has the Jxx)

 

or a heart trick, still no good if they make 5 hearts straight off they then have to guess where the J diamonds is

 

( if opps have them all there is no way to set them anyway)

 

you have taken away their possible 4 club tricks as they then give you 1 club and the remaining 3 spade tricks + the one you have = 5 tricks so contract is down 1

 

hope that makes sense, (it seems to me to let opps do all he work trying to work out where the 5 points I cant account for are)

 

east 14, dummy 11, west 10+ = 35

[sceptic]

I dont think that opener has any length over 3 in diamonds anyway as he has shown

 

5 hearts min and 2 spades (I dont think AS stop is enough to bid 3nt) 3 clubs as ghe supported so that only leaves 3 diamonds max,

[Walddk]

return the J spades

 

logic behind this is opps have to cover with the QS

 

Then East has to play away from the good Q diamond trick (no good if your p has the Jxx)

 

or a heart trick, still no good if they make 5 hearts straight off they then have to guess where the J diamonds is

 

( if opps have them all there is no way to set them anyway)

 

you have taken away their possible 4 club tricks as they then give you 1 club and the remaining 3 spade tricks + the one you have = 5 tricks  so contract is down 1

 

hope that makes sense, (it seems to me to let opps do all he work trying to work out  where the 5 points I cant account for are)

 

east 14, dummy 11, west 10+ = 35

Wihtout revealing anything at this point, sceptic, I can guarantee that you will never squeeze your way to 13 tricks if you keep analysing like that :)

 

Roland

[sceptic]

sigh, back to the drawing board

[Free]

if west has KQxxx in ♥ and we return ♠, then we just handed over their 9th trick. i think ♣ is the right suit to return, small ♣ is best.

[Walddk]

if west has KQxxx in ♥ and we return ♠, then we just handed over their 9th trick. i think ♣ is the right suit to return, small ♣ is best.

If declarer has ♣K and ♦Jxx you also handed him his 9th trick by returning a club. 1 spade, 5 hearts, 2 diamonds, and 1 club.

 

Roland

[slothy]

I shoot back ♦

 

i am playing declarer for 8 tricks 5 H , 1C (by force with K) 1S and a D.

 

If the Q D holds then he just plays a ♣ for his ninth.

 

(if he missing A J ♣, and K J ♦ too much going on..he might have decided to take simple finesse in ♦ for 9 tricks. if P has K ♠ and you short...consistent with lead, declarer still has chances if you got A ♣ anyway PS the 5♠ is ambigous to declarer: he doesnt know that your p found killing lead)

 

so play a ♦ playing p for JT, J9(ie any holding that smothers declarer) unblocking 8.

 

If declarer ducks, with a ♦ in the bag, play ♠ setting my ♠ up. we take 2♦ a ♣and ♠s before he can run 9 tricks (2♠s,5♥s,1♦)

 

If he takes it win A♣ and play ♦ to get p in to lead a spade.

[inquiry]

[hv=d=w&v=e&e=sq96ha8daq3cq10984&s=skj1073h754dk85ca6]266|200|Scoring: IMP

W: 3NT

Lead: S5[/hv]

 

What do you return and why?

Declearer is 2-5-3-3. or 3-5-1-4, although in this case partner has six diamonds JT97xx amd choose a heroic spade instead of a pedestrian diamond.

 

One reasonable sshot is to play partner for club king and lead a low club. This is first thought that comes to mind, despirate times call for despirate measures. But if partner has teh club king, there is no rush to return it at the present time, declearer will never have 9 tricks if your partner has the club king before he can get in and lead another spade (5H, 2D, 1S is only 8)... unless you return a spade yourself.

 

So you can try both diamonds and clubs. First, I would return the diamond eight and not the five. Why the eight? You need to get a signal in diamonds so you will know how to play the club suit. With a diamond winner after the eight lead, partner will signal attitude if the eight is not covered. Yourr partner should know that west can not have 4♦ on this auction, so he will cover the 9 or Ten only if he has the matching entry card. So for instance from JTxx he will play the jack no matter what west plays. From J9xx he will play the nine, if west plays low, from Jxxx he will duck the 9 or Ten if it is played. From Txx he will duck the nine if it is played. If partner's play indicates no "diamond entry" then we fall back on the near hopeless chance partner has the club king.

 

Thus from the play in diamonds, you will know whether to duck first club or win it and lead another diamomnd. This gives you two chances to set the contract (partner has slow diamond entry or quick club entry) rather just one (partner has quck club entry).

 

 

Ben

[Guest Jlall]

If declarer has ♣K and ♦Jxx you also handed him his 9th trick by returning a club. 1 spade, 5 hearts, 2 diamonds, and 1 club.

 

Roland

if declarer had the CK and DJxx he could, and should, just play clubs instead of this ridiculous diamond play.

[luis]

I agree with returning a club it doesn't make sense to assume that declarer does have the club king so my pd has the club king.

[inquiry]

I agree with returning a club it doesn't make sense to assume that declarer does have the club king so my pd has the club king.

What is the rush to return a club. Can declearer have 9 tricks when he gets back in? No. Five hearts, 2D (at most), and 1 Spade. If your partner has the club king you don't have to return one now to set the contract. True, you will only set it one trick (when he has the king) rather than three. But there are two arguements against return a club. 1) It is extremely unlikely that declearer holds

♠Ax ♥KQJxx ♦JTx ♣Jxx where a club return sets it three. Most people, I think, rebid 2♥ with that hand. Second, if he has that hand, a diamond return still sets the contract.

 

A diamond seems to give you two chances to set the contract. 1) Partner has ♦J9 or ♦JT or 2) partner has ♣K.

 

I do have to agree with justin that playing on diamonds missing the KJT or KJ9 seems silly, but he may be missing the club JACK also, and a diamond play here which loses to the king with a black card return assures the contract. If we are to beat this, I think declarer probably holds:

♠A8 ♥KQJTx ♦Txx ♣K7x..

 

As for is the diamond play bad with this holding? If the diamond queen wins, he can establish a club (hoping ♣A is in your hand or ♠king is in your partners. I myself would have played on clubs instead, but with everyone underleadng club ACE here, maybe this declarer is smarter than me.

 

Of course I will look very silly if declarer is 1-5-4-3 and runs 5H, 1S, 3D... with partner holding the club king. But then he got me with the bidding and my parnter to with his spot spade lead.

 

Ben

[pclayton]

Yep; club.

 

Strong inference that hearts are solid because of the diamond play. Therefore; declarer has 1 spade, 5 hearts and 2 diamonds.

 

Seemingly I can exit passive and wait for my tricks; but I need to find 2 pitches on the hearts. I will end up either blocking the club suit or throwing my good spades.

 

With a sleepy pard the A♣ is best, so he's not tempted to do anything but return a spade.

[cherdano]

Yep; club.

 

Strong inference that hearts are solid because of the diamond play. Therefore; declarer has 1 spade, 5 hearts and 2 diamonds.

 

Seemingly I can exit passive and wait for my tricks; but I need to find 2 pitches on the hearts. I will end up either blocking the club suit or throwing my good spades.

I don't understand this remark. If partner doesn't have a diamond entry (as I will find out when I return a diamond), I need him to have the ♣K to beat this, so I can throw 2 spades and we still have 5 tricks. Or I could get fancy and throw the club A :rolleyes:

 

So far I don't understand against which holding Ben's defense would be wrong.

 

Arend

[Guest Jlall]

If we are to beat this, I think declarer probably holds:

♠A8 ♥KQJTx ♦Txx ♣K7x..

 

As for is the diamond play bad with this holding? If the diamond queen wins, he can establish a club (hoping ♣A is in your hand or ♠king is in your partners.

Yes I think a diamond play IS that bad with this holding. Declarer is cold if he just plays clubs with this, so i don't think hes very good. He is executing a grovesner coup with this play. Yes you will still beat it if you play a diamond here and he has Ax KQJxx Jxx Jxx but you will not beat it 3 vulnerable. If they beat it 1 at the other table then you have cost yourself 5 imps which is not negligable. Since I cannot think of another reasonable hand where declarer has played a diamond (I do not think in your construction the play is reasonable at all) I will go for +300.

 

If he had the hand you gave him even if the diamond hook wins, he needs us to have the club ace in order to make (if the spade king is offside, if it isnt he is always cold unless we now setup diamonds). If we have the club ace he can GUARANTEE his contract by playing clubs. Clearly a diamond is never right.

[Walddk]

Yes you will still beat it if you play a diamond here and he has Ax KQJxx Jxx Jxx but you will not beat it 3 vulnerable. If they beat it 1 at the other table then you have cost yourself 5 imps which is not negligable. Since I cannot think of another reasonable hand where declarer has played a diamond (I do not think in your construction the play is reasonable at all) I will go for +300.

[hv=d=w&v=e&n=s852h1096d10972ck32&w=sa4hkqj32dj64cj75&e=sq96ha8daq3cq10984&s=skj1073h754dk85ca6]399|300|Scoring: IMP

W: 3NT

Lead: S5[/hv]

 

Thanks for your contributions. Most of you got the layout right, and I agree that declarer's diamond play at trick 2 makes little sense if he had ♣K. Therefore it seems as if a low club after the losing diamond finesse must be right. That will lead to 3 down after your partner's inspired lead.

 

This will surely be the right defence at matchpoints where every trick counts; at IMPs, however, it depends on how "greedy" you are. Because as some pointed out, a diamond return will give you one more chance later in case declarer did something odd when he went after diamonds at trick 2.

 

The thing you must try to assess at the table when playing IMPs is whether the first undertrick is not more important than the second and third.

 

A club back is certainly consistent with the "strange" diamond play by declarer, but all declarers are not always rational, and if you want to make sure that you actually beat the contract (if at all beatable), you should perhaps be happy with down 1 and return a diamond. That will not give declarer his 9th trick.

 

I will leave it up to you and your judgement.

 

Roland

[pclayton]

Roland:

 

The more I think about this problem, the more I like the A♣ instead of a low one. From partner's point of view its possible that declarer has the ♠AK / AKx. Declarer might have been taking the diamond hook trying to set up a 10th trick.

 

A low (even though its the 8 spot) club would also be consistent with a club holding of A-J-8. Pard needs to return a club in this scenario to hold this to 3 if declarer also holds the ♦J, assuming the hearts are solid. Obviously on the actual hand a club return by pard allows this silly thing to make.

 

Anyway, this is what Marshall Miles would say. :)

[Walddk]

A low (even though its the 8 spot) club would also be consistent with a club holding of A-J-8.

I don't buy that. You think West has supported on a doubleton? Low club is fine if you decide to return a club.

 

Roland

[pclayton]

A low (even though its the 8 spot) club would also be consistent with a club holding of A-J-8.

I don't buy that. You think West has supported on a doubleton? Low club is fine if you decide to return a club.

 

Roland

Not at all: I think LHO raised on AK, KQJxx, Jxx, xxx. Maybe the spade spots make this impossible though, but theme is still valid.

[Guest Jlall]

huh? then pard would have KJx and know we didnt have AJx...