Evaluation: how many NT?

[Fluffy]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq6haj5djt64ca642&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1sp]133|200[/hv]

 

1♠: 11-15, 5+♠, might have longer minor, might be balanced on the full range.

 

1NT here is a GF relay that will ask all distribution. Rest NT bids are natural.

[MrAce]

2

[olien]

All 12 of my points are working. Qx of spades is nice and my DJ is even backed us by the 10 and with some length

[Trinidad]

2

3

 

Rik

[helene_t]

It's a decent 12-count and we are r/w at IMPs. I think we have to be in game. I voted 1NT. 3NT could work but if pa has six spades,4♠ is often better.

[PhilKing]

2.8

[aguahombre]

Let's assume that you evaluate the hand as G.F. in NT, which it probably isn't if partner opens 1M with what we do --- it seems that 3NT as described in the poll is your only choice. What I mean by that is the implication you use 1nt, then 3NT (2-step approach) as some conventional toy. Even if that isn't the case...when 3NT describes the desire to play in 3NT opposite a routine 1M, I don't think you want Opener to be leaking information enroute when you are marginal to begin with. You wouldn't be bidding 3NT with a stiff spade, so Partner must feel free to convert with 6 of them.

[mikeh]

I am not relaying. he can pull 3N to spades...I surely can't hold a stiff or void for 3N. In the meantime, if I am pushing to what may be a 23 or 24 hcp game, it would be foolish, on most hands, to allow the opps to hear what partner has.

 

I do force, but only because I like Aces and I love Qx in partner's major. I expect to fail quite often if he has a minimum, and he will be dealt 11 or 12 more often than 14 or 15. But, especially if I don't try to have partner describe his hand to the opps, I rate to have play.

 

So I bid 3N.

 

Edit: I responded to the Op then read the other posts and see that aqua said it all before me :D

[neilkaz]

I am not relaying. he can pull 3N to spades...I surely can't hold a stiff or void for 3N. In the meantime, if I am pushing to what may be a 23 or 24 hcp game, it would be foolish, on most hands, to allow the opps to hear what partner has.

 

I do force, but only because I like Aces and I love Qx in partner's major. I expect to fail quite often if he has a minimum, and he will be dealt 11 or 12 more often than 14 or 15. But, especially if I don't try to have partner describe his hand to the opps, I rate to have play.

 

So I bid 3N.

 

Edit: I responded to the Op then read the other posts and see that aqua said it all before me :D

 

We agree...I'll take my shot and let them defend 3NT with limited info.

[the hog]

Why not hit a GF relay and slope out with an invit bid? Else I am bidding 3NT.

[olien]

Is partner expected to pull 3NT with AJxxx Kx AQxxx x? If not, I want to relay as 6m is on 1 of 2 finesses while 3NT may need more.

[the hog]

Is partner expected to pull 3NT with AJxxx Kx AQxxx x? If not, I want to relay as 6m is on 1 of 2 finesses while 3NT may need more.

 

That is why you hit one gf relay first. If pd makes an unexciting reply you bid 3NT; if pd shows a fit for you you relay out the hand.It also depends whether it is MPs or Imps of course.

[Fluffy]

You can exit the relays when you want to jump to game.

 

1♠-2NT

2♦-2♥ (minimum with a minor, at most 5 spades)

2♠-2NT (exactly 4 clubs)

3♥-?? (exactly 5314)

 

What game would you bid?, at which point?

[MrAce]

It also depends on how light do you open. First of all to me vulnerability has zero role in 1 level game openings. Yes it is dangerous when red, but also dangerous to miss game. MP is another story otoh. To me vulnerability is important mostly on overcalls, how high to compete and preempts. So basically if you are opening hands like the players did on vugraph today, frequently almost all balanced some 9s 10 hcps, all 11s and 12s in final match, I would think 2 NT more than enough. However I would never disagree strongly with someone who prefers 3 NT at imps and red.

[gnasher]

You can exit the relays when you want to jump to game.

 

1♠-2NT

2♦-2♥ (minimum with a minor, at most 5 spades)

2♠-2NT (exactly 4 clubs)

3♥-?? (exactly 5314)

 

What game would you bid?, at which point?

 

Having started to relay, I'd go all the way. Then I'd bid 5♣, playing him for something like AJxxx Kxx x KJxx. I wouldn't expect to be right that often, though (and I don't like the methods much).

[whereagles]

2NT seems fair. Pard is going to accept this on any 13 and pass on 11-12, so there.

[gszes]

If we can score up 5 spades when p has the spade AK their side

values even at minimum will normally be enough for game

that % alone is probably enough to be in game vul at imps.

 

I would choose

 

1n forcing

 

however since arriving at the best spot

is often vastly superior than playing in an inferior spot while

giving the opps no information. This hand might easily belong in

hearts/spades possibly even a minor and jumping to 3n under the

guise of being "mysterious". The only player being preempted by a

jump to 3n is your partner.

[jogs]

Why is responder in control of the auction? With a big hand he knows he wants to be in game. With the hand you posted doesn't he need room to describe his hand? 2NT uses too much space.

[whereagles]

By the way, bidding game is ok opposite a normal opener. Precision openers can get somewhat lighter, hence the cautions 2NT (believe me, I've been there before).

[SteveMoe]

Count me with the 2N bidders.

Partner opens 11s and some 10s.

Partner still has a bid coming, and we play 2N shows 12. (11+ to 13 minus).

[straube]

Is the hand good enough to force game?

.....If yes, then will we gain more or less by learning partner's distribution and sharing it with the opponents? The OP says 1S-3N will be the usual contract and nothing about implying spade tolerance; perhaps it just shows conviction that 3N will be a good contract and that responder is not interested in shortness, etc.

.....If no, then might we find a better spot by a game forcing relay vs burying fits with 2N?

 

I think most here vote "no". It's not good enough to force game. But should it?

 

The answer to the "no" question is possibly "yes" in that this hand is "working" opposite any shortness partner might have. 2N would be more attractive with say xx KJx KQxx Kxxx.

 

But I imagine that the OP has some methodology over 1S-2N to find better contracts. Something like...

 

3C-forces 3D

.....3D-forced

..........P-weak diamonds

..........3H-weak 5H

..........3S-weak 6S

..........3N-good 5C

3D-GF checkback

.....3H-4H

.........3S-6S

.....3S-2S

3H-GF 5 hearts

3S-GF 5 diamonds

3N-other

 

It would be nice to fit in some 5431s as well but space is tight.

[jogs]

There's needs to be a fourth option on the poll. How often does one partner know enough to take control of the auction? Asking bids and relays bids sound convincing when advocated by an expert writer. In reality the right conditions seldom occur.

After partner opens 1♠ with 15 max, responder with 10-14 just isn't in position to dictate the direction of the auction. 1♠ by opener. With 2=3=4=4, responder doesn't know if there is a eight card fit. Without a eight card fit it may be difficult to make nine tricks with 26 HCPs. 7775 and 7766 partnership patterns are not conducive to generating tricks. These patterns suggest finding the best strain or any seven card fit. Stopping on the two level would probably be better for optimal expected imps than searching for an unlikely game. Therefore I hate your 2NT treatment, with those hands we should be searching for the best fit on the two level.

[steve2005]

2NT seems fair. Pard is going to accept this on any 13 and pass on 11-12, so there.

 

Exactly while you have a nice 12, if partner has 11 your not gonna have much hope of game, but partner will bid 3N with 13 at imps.

Also a 3N might just get doubled if its going down 2.

[benlessard]

If partner pass 2Nt are the losses of the miss game going to be higher than the gain of the the hands where only 8 tricks was available ? I don't think so.

 

I believe in Invite sound accept agressive so I don't see why I would I force to game if I can Inv and let partner take the last decision he also know we are vul at imps after all.

 

.

[beatrix45]

Ask me no questions, I tell you no lies. Unless partner is a notorious light opener, I bid 3NT. My reasoning is that my 12 HCP all look useful, and they offer lots of secondary values useful in a 3NT contract. Make it as hard on the opponents as possible.