Showing big hands after opps open

[hokum]

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=pp1sdp2cp]133|100[/hv]

 

How can West show various huge hands?

 

2♦ = good 16/17+

3♦ = ? (passable?)

cue spades then ♦ = ? (GFing?)

 

Today my partner bid 3♦ here and thought it was game-forcing. I realised I don't really know. Is there a "standard"? How would you bid with a random (decent) partner?

 

Thanks

[wank]

i'm assuming you don't play equal level conversion.

 

double and a new suit shows more than 16/17. it should be more like 18/19 so that's 2d. 3d is gf. cueing then bidding diamonds would show a more flexible hand but still gf.

[ahydra]

3D should definitely be GF here. I think the standard is to play 2D as F1 - this makes a lot of sense when you think about what would happen if East responded 3C, showing some reasonable values. Now you may well want to look for game even with 15 HCP, so a new suit being INV+ and F1 is very useful.

 

ahydra

[Zelandakh]

As I have learned it in Acolland, a new suit shows a maximum (Acol) opening bid, say 16-19 or so, and a jump in a new suit shows the equivalent of an Acol 2. GF hands start with a cue bid. That is surely not optimal but nice and simple for explaining to a beginner and works well enough most of the time. Wank's post illustrates the difference between traditional overcalls and what most experts are doing these days. That the upper end has gone up significantly is relevant when deciding how to optimally arrange follow-ups.

[hokum]

As I have learned it in Acolland, a new suit shows a maximum (Acol) opening bid, say 16-19 or so, and a jump in a new suit shows the equivalent of an Acol 2. GF hands start with a cue bid. That is surely not optimal but nice and simple for explaining to a beginner and works well enough most of the time. Wank's post illustrates the difference between traditional overcalls and what most experts are doing these days. That the upper end has gone up significantly is relevant when deciding how to optimally arrange follow-ups.

 

That was what I presumed. I'll be asking all strong partners how they play these auctions so I can get a sense of expectations in an undiscussed partnership. Cheers.

[jallerton]

As in many situations, the standard is that there's no standard!

 

I'm surprised by the answers saying that 3♦ is game forcing. How often does a game forcing (single-suiter?) hand crop up when partner has shown nothing and an opponent has opened the bidding? I like to double rather than overcall 2♦ on flexible hands, so for me double followed by 2♦ could be a 2452/1453 hand with strong NT values. A jump to 3♦ is a strong bid: single-suited hand, something like an Acol 2, but not forcing. On the rare occasions when the doubler has a game force in his own hand, he can start with a cue bid.

[the hog]

3D is certainly GF in my book. A 2D bid would be a very strong bid, similar to an Acol 2.