What is your bid

[inquiry]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=saqjt4hkq7d3cq762]133|100|Scoring: IMP

West North East South

 

 -      1♥     2♦     ?[/hv]

 

Playing with a new partner and without discussing whether fit jumps in competition apply (so that a 3S bid to show hearts and spades is not available). What do you bid over 2♦? If possible, explain your bid too... :-)

[Free]

Probably 4♦. I'm afraid partner would pass if I bid 2♠. To get a good example, see http://online.bridgebase.com/cgi-bin/histo...etchlin=1749857 :)

[cherdano]

I bid 2♠ (which I hope we have clearly agreed to be forcing), although I hate the problem

after (5♦)-P-(P).

 

Arend

[mike777]

2S, if we have not discussed this, and who does with a new partner, then hopefully p will bid again.

 

If playing NFB then X.

 

Over 5d and p by partner then 5H.

[Double !]

this is not a simple problem: Fit jumps would certainly help. I voted for 2 Spades because 1) I like to bid where my values are located, 2) there's no guarantee that lho is bidding 5D, 3) I can probably find some way to show good hearts and stiff diamond, but 4) I want to hear what my partner's rebid is. ( There is some merit in a 4D splinter [watch partner pass it] After all, where are partner's high cards that warranted a 1H bid to start with? If opener has wasted diamond honors, am I passing 4H, or taking one more try with 4S? and, even without wasted diamond honors, with a mini, is partner necessarily bidding something other than 4H?) At this point, I'll choose to show what I have versus what I don't have.

[whereagles]

If a fit-jump is not available, then I must do the bid that is more likely to help pard if they bid 5D. That must obviously be a bid that shows a fit, so it's either 2NT, 3D or 4D. Since the hand has low ODR, a 3D cue is the bid that gets this point across better.

[Guest Jlall]

i was the lone ranger that voted for 3D. With a stiff diamond, it is important to establish the fit since your next bid may be at the 5 level and you will have no idea what to do (no im not comfortable comitting to 5H with 3 card support). I will show my fit, then if it comes back to me at 5D i will make a FP, and if pard cracks 5D will respect it.

[flytoox]

Ben, I think without discussion, the default treatment is 2S is F1 so it is the bid. I will plan to rebid 4D.

 

The problem with this is LHO might come in with 5D and pass to me. I may regret then. At the moment I will stick with 2S.

[EricK]

I bid 3♦.

 

It is important to show the ♥ support and strength before LHO pre-empts us.

 

Even if LHO doesn't pre-empt I am happy to make a fit showing bid rather than an ambiguous force. If LHO is silent I will be able to show the ♠ later anyway.

 

Eric

[TimG]

I thnk 3S (fit) and 4D (splinter) are both wrong because of the lack of a 4th trump. I'm not much concerned with having to bid 5H over 5D, so I choose 2S. Second choice would be 3D.

[luis]

I think it's crucial to bid 2s so if we are allowed to ask for aces and we have them all pd can go to 7h when he is asked with 5NT if he has the spade king the key that is important if there's a grand slam.

[pbleighton]

"this is not a simple problem: Fit jumps would certainly help. I voted for 2 Spades because 1) I like to bid where my values are located, 2) there's no guarantee that lho is bidding 5D, 3) I can probably find some way to show good hearts and stiff diamond, but 4) I want to hear what my partner's rebid is. ( There is some merit in a 4D splinter [watch partner pass it] After all, where are partner's high cards that warranted a 1H bid to start with? If opener has wasted diamond honors, am I passing 4H, or taking one more try with 4S? and, even without wasted diamond honors, with a mini, is partner necessarily bidding something other than 4H?) At this point, I'll choose to show what I have versus what I don't have."

 

Agree completely. Do we have a double fit in spades or clubs?

 

Peter

[inquiry]

This hand was played at teams and the first two bids were the same, but the auctions diverged at souths bid..

 

Let;s discuss the bid with the least support yet.. 3♦

 

The bidding continued...

 

1♥ (2♦) 3♦ Pass

3NT (Pass) ?

 

 

What do you bid now. For the spade bidders, we will have that auction in a bit....

 

Ben

[pbleighton]

It sounds like pd opened 1H with 15-17 balanced (or maybe 2542). Good enough to use Gerber to check for aces, and go to 6H if he has 2.

 

Peter

[tysen2k]

My vote is for 3♦, which the way I play with my partner shows limit+ with exactly 3-card support.

 

After partner rebids 3N, I'll cue with 4♠. Although partner may have wasted diamond values, my hand is a lot better than a minimum and I need to say something. Partner should have at least 17-18 HCP, maybe more.

 

Tysen

[luke warm]

i voted 3d also, because 2s isn't forcing for me... double entered into the picture, but i'd really feel bad if he passed it for penalties (i know, not very likely - but still)

 

♠ AQJT4

♥ KQ7

♦ 3

♣ Q762

 

after

 

1♥ (2♦) 3♦ Pass

3NT (Pass) ?

 

i bid 4h... someone (rubins?) once said, look for slam if a perfect minimum makes it a laydown... what would be a perfect minimum here? 2 red aces and the ♣K maybe? i don't think i'll go slamming, partner probably knows i have a decent hand

[mike777]

I bid 2s but over 3d and 3nt will rebid 4d, one more slam try.

 

I do not see why p must have 15-17 or 17-18 hcp or 4d for rebid of 3nt. Note 3d does not 100% promise heart support, only very often. P bid of 3nt is just showing his values.

[Double !]

Does Q-bidding 3D and then bidding 4S over 3NT show a spade suit that is worth 5 tricks if partner has the king, possibly even if partner doesn't have the king, and a diamond control, and 2 of the top 3 honors in hearts? Will partner ever play me for this good of a hand? How much extra does 3NT show? What is partner bidding over 4S with something like Kx, AJxxx, AJ10x, Kx?

or something similar? IMO, this whole sequence got distorted by bidding 3D to "protect" against a hypothetical 5D bid on my left. Although I only have 3 hearts, my hand seems to be worth about 7 tricks +/- in a heart contract: how do I catch up now? Or, have I caught up by bidding 4S?

[pbleighton]

"I do not see why p must have 15-17 or 17-18 hcp or 4d for rebid of 3nt. Note 3d does not 100% promise heart support, only very often. P bid of 3nt is just showing his values."

 

1) I said "sounds like 15-17", not "must". You have only shown limit plus values in support of hearts, which may include distribution, so you may have 8 hcp with a singleton, so it would be pretty aggressive to go to 3NT on a 13 count. With 18+, he might not make a "to play" bid. Pd should also have at least one diamond stopper, leading me to think 2542 is a possible distribution.

2) For the purpose of this post/poll, 3D establishes a heart fit unconditionally.

 

Peter

[Winstonm]

Surely 2S must be at least a 1-round force no matter what you play. It is true that I may next have to support hearts at the 5-level, but that is being pessimistic and it may not happen. Better, in my opinion, to give a clear definition of where my values lie; if I bid spades now and later support hearts, there must have been a good reason and the good reason is a good suit - this allows partner to accurately judge the weight of his Kx of spades and Axx of clubs.

 

If the suit were not so good and the clubs a little better, I would prefer the splinter bid of 4D; However, I would think that partner would expect a little more in clubs for that bid and although my hand is somewhat slammish, it is not as slammish in my opinion as 4D implies.

 

A great deal here I believe has to do with your interpretation of what a splinter bid means. Is it simply a game-forcing hand with shortness, or is it a slam invite with shortness? In my mind, there is a subtle difference between the two.

 

WinstonM

[Guest Jlall]

over 3N i'll bid 4D and respect what partner chooses to do.

[pclayton]

I opted for 2♠ and don't think its much of a problem. Fitted bid is OK (if available), but I don't like a control in the club suit here.

[mike777]

Surely 2S must be at least a 1-round force no matter what you play.

 

WinstonM

I think if playing NFB then 2s can be passed. Why else play it. This means a game force hand would have to start with cue bid or neg x and new suit rebid.

[the hog]

2S if playing cos as forcing; X followed by a forcing 2S if playing nfb. Have to show the S preparatory to showing my H fit so partner can assess the K of S if he has it. The cue bid does nothing.

[flytoox]

Surely 2S must be at least a 1-round force no matter what you play.   

 

WinstonM

I think if playing NFB then 2s can be passed. Why else play it. This means a game force hand would have to start with cue bid or neg x and new suit rebid.

NFB is a convention. without discussion with a new pd 2S has to be F1.