Neg X then bid a new suit disagreement

[neilkaz]

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1d1sdp2dp3c]133|100[/hv]

 

We were playing 2/1 and were NOT playing NFB. When PD rebid 3♣ I assumed that PD had a hand that was too weak to have bid 2♣ but too strong for a WJS to 3♣ whereas she assumed that 3♣ was new suit forcing by responder. My PD was also American in case this is played differently elsewhere. I told her that if she wants to force me after my 2♦ rebid on a sequence like this she has to cue bid 2♠.

 

Who's right?

[Bbradley62]

You are, except that if she's strong enough to want to force later, she's probably strong enough for an initial 2♣. Edited May 11, 2014 by Bbradley62

[silvr bull]

If I held the South hand and bid that sequence, I would have something like x Kxxx xx AJTxxx. I would describe the 3♣ bid as forward going but non forcing, with at least a tolerance for opener to bid 3♦.

[wank]

where i'm from this is universally played as 4h, 6c and to play.

 

i've encountered some americans who play it as forcing with 4h and longer clubs though. one presumes they're keen to show hearts immediately with a strong hand lest 4th hand pre-empts, as opposed to our way of bidding whereby they just introduce their longest suit and reverse into hearts later.

[awm]

I'm an American and agree with Wank that this is a less-than-forcing 4♥-6♣ hand. A better such hand can start with 2♣, or can cue 2♠ over partner's 2♦ rebid.

[MrAce]

I agree with the above posters that this is NF and 4-6 typically

I have also witnessed that some play this without 4 card ♥ requirement (as if they bid 1 NT and then bid a new suit at 3 level) something like xxx Kx x AJTxxx so that their 2♣ always promise at least a certain number of beans though it is not GF. I don't like it myself but just saying what I have seen more than a dozen of times.

[helene_t]

With silver bulls hand I would pass 2di. If 3c is constructive it shows 10-11 hcp

[TWO4BRIDGE]

" The only forcing bid by the Neg-doubler is a cue bid . "

[aguahombre]

I agree with the above posters that this is NF and 4-6 typically

I have also witnessed that some play this without 4 card ♥ requirement (as if they bid 1 NT and then bid a new suit at 3 level) something like xxx Kx x AJTxxx so that their 2♣ always promise at least a certain number of beans though it is not GF. I don't like it myself but just saying what I have seen more than a dozen of times.

Yes, I have seen it for about 40 years. When RHO has competed with a whole 1♠ overcall, we really hate passing as responder when we would have happily responded without the interference. So, we like it; we just have to have enough beans to remove 3H. Our 2C response would have been pretty much g.f., a significant minority position...but workable if the Neg Double could include off-shape invitational hands.

[neilkaz]

" The only forcing bid by the Neg-doubler is a cue bid . "

Yes this has certainly been my understanding and what I've been taught during my bridge playing years. PD had a 3-4-2-4 decent 12 count but no ♠ stop and since I had one with my 13 count, the cards were right so that 3NT would roll home.

 

I told her that she had to cue 2♠ if she wanted to force and then we'd find our stopper and she didn't agree with the cue bid idea and then left the table after playing the hand. not being in agreement with me.

[jillybean]

Stop playing with stroppy females who don't understand the intricacies of bidding :)