The Misadventures of Rex and Jay--#6548

[microcap]

Rex and I seldom play matchpoints as the opportunities for catastrophe are virtually limitless!

 

We are having a typically civilized and respectful argument over the following hand:

 

Warning, this is at least a 2 part question and likely 3 or 4 so it will require coming back after I get responses to part one.

 

You hold in second position:[hv=pc=n&e=sj2ha6dj9cjt98763&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=ppp1d1h]133|200[/hv]

 

Before you answer read the following: In our system, as we play 12-16 1NT, partner CANNOT have the typical balanced 11-15 hand with 3-4 diamonds. You are playing weak jump shifts.

 

It's matchpoints, what do you bid and what are your general thoughts about how this auction will go?

[whereagles]

I have a weak JS and I'm playing weak JS. What more do I need to bid 3♣?

[ArtK78]

If 3♣ shows a weak hand with clubs, that is my choice.

 

I wonder why I didn't open 3♣.

 

I am not really concerned with how the auction will go. I just want to get my hand off my chest and then sit back.

[gszes]

having 3c available as a WJS is great and certainly usable

here but only if it helps show the difference between what

your current hand looks like and an opening 3c bid. Note

that ARTK78 wonders why no 3c opener so for him the best

use of a 3c bid here might be actual clubs like KQTxxx.

 

In my case this is much closer to a 3c WJS since I have

decent clubs at equal when I open 3c.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

 

I dont like making a WJS with Jack high to the 3 level.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[the hog]

You did not open 3C, so presumably this type of hand does not qualify. However you have a 7 card club suit and presumably a hand that qualifies for a weak jump. Why on earth not bid it then? I have no idea how the auction will go, but partner now has a good idea of what I am holding.

[Fluffy]

Say partner opens 1NT and I have this, what would I bid?

 

3NT

 

But now opponent tells me he is going to lead a heart... now I don't like it much and would rather play clubs... unless partner has ♥K, that is, he has a heart stopper.

 

So I bid whatever is a take out double in your system. If partner shows 17-19 balanced with a stopper I want to play 3NT, otherwise try to stop in 3♣.

[MickyB]

What do we expect partner to do with a 17-19 NT if we make a WJS? "WJS" could conceivably mean -

 

17-19 NT has to bid again

INV opposite 17-19 NT

to play opposite 17-19 NT

 

We need to know which it is.

[microcap]

We got a few votes for using the weak jump shift and a few votes for not using it.

 

Let's just say that you bid 3♣ at the table. I will get into that argument after the end of the story.

 

Now, LHO supports with 3♥, and partner bids 3♠. Pass by RHO and back to you again.

 

What now, and what do you think is going on?[hv=pc=n&e=sj2ha3dj9cjt97632&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=ppp1d1h3c3h3sp]133|200[/hv]

[the hog]

I would say that pd has a really good hand and does not want to pass 3H out. 3S is probably asking me to bid 3NT with a H stopper, which is what I do. I don't think he is 6-5 in the pointeds.

[whereagles]

I think pard is bidding naturally, i.e. he has some 4252 or 4261 and extras. This is very consistent with our hand.

 

Since 3NT rates to go down (1 trick from me is probably not enough), I'm going to bid 4♣ now. Maybe pard has a fitting club honor?

[Fluffy]

4♦

[MrAce]

deleted

[microcap]

At the table, the hand bid 3NT. Now Double from LHO, partner and RHO pass.

 

Back to you, any last ideas before finding out what partner has?

[gszes]

At the table, the hand bid 3NT. Now Double from LHO, partner and RHO pass.

 

Back to you, any last ideas before finding out what partner has?

 

You mean the JT98xxx hand found a 3n bid??? hmm tell them not vulnerable

does not mean invulnerable and if it was me (after my moment of insanity)

I am running like a cheetah to 4c.

[P_Marlowe]

At the table, the hand bid 3NT. Now Double from LHO, partner and RHO pass.

 

Back to you, any last ideas before finding out what partner has?

Partners 3S bid should promise club tolerance with an honor, spade values.

Given that I did not open 3C ..., I have no idea, what the min req. for a

3C opening bid looks like in the partnership.

 

Anyway I dont believe partner has AKx, AK is not enough, since the heart

attack is killing my entry.

 

Hence 4C, ... but I would not be there.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[microcap]

Ok, thank you for all the thoughtful responses which touched on a lot of the issues that Rex and i have calmly and rationally discussed. :lol:

 

Here are the 2 hands and the auction:[hv=pc=n&w=skqt98h42dakqt86c&e=sj2ha3dj9cjt97632&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=ppp1d1h3c3h3sp3ndppp]266|200[/hv]

 

Down 2 for minus 300 and a cold bottom.

 

Personally, I think the weak jump shift is the villain of the piece. With opponents both passed hand, it seems to me you are much more likely to preempt partner than give him useful information.

 

I should have pulled the 3NT double and just bid 4 diamonds. That would have been an above average score, as only one pair reached 4 spades and one reached 5 diamonds.

 

Final comments?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I think bidding 4S (even with no double) over 3NT is clear.

 

Marlowe

[the hog]

So let me summarise the situation.

1) East did not open 3C and so cannot have a good C suit.

2) West opened a good, but not exceptional hand with 1D, no doubt intending to reverse into Spades. Personally I would have opened 1S, but never mind, I can live with 1D.

3) East bid 3C wjs, See point 1, the Cs cannot be great. The partnership has agreed to play Wjs.

4) West bids 3S - ok. Clearly E-W should have discussed whether this must show a 6-5. Personally I don't think it must. What should poor west bid over 3H with

Axx x AKQJxxx xx ?

5) East is not sure what 3S means but thinks that my hand above might be a possibility. He has a H stopper and so bids the eminently reasonable 3NT. After all, he knows that his partner knows he does not have 7 good Cs and a H stopper, so he really should show the H stopper in case of the above hand.

6) West passes!!!! He has a C void so knows that the C suit cannot be set up. He has a 6-5 shape. He knows there is not a H stopper AND the SA in partner's hand. He passes! 4D is a standout bid even with no double.

7) West is totally off the planet and does not deserve the thinking East player as a partner.

 

Post edited to remove what I really think of West's actions.

[ArtK78]

I agree with The Hog but without the name calling. West should bid 4♠ over 3NT even if 3NT is not doubled.

 

The thought that the 3♣ bid is the villain of this auction is completely wrong. If you won't bid 3♣ WJS on this hand, what hand will you bid 3♣ on?

[the hog]

I agree with The Hog but without the name calling. West should bid 4♠ over 3NT even if 3NT is not doubled.

 

The thought that the 3♣ bid is the villain of this auction is completely wrong. If you won't bid 3♣ WJS on this hand, what hand will you bid 3♣ on?

 

So what would you call him? An expert? He does not deserve a thinking partner.

[jogs]

The opening pass is probably best. 7222 is poor for preempting. Jx in two suits are major flaws.

 

Don't like WJS in contested auctions. Prefer fit jumps.

 

West should rebid 3♦. The likelihood the board belongs in spades is small. The diamond suit is self-sufficient. 30% of boards should be bid defensively. Avoid the big minus, rather than hope for the magical optimal result. Void in clubs suggests this to be a unlucky board.

[whereagles]

Ron, as much as you loath West's actions (I don't care for them much either), every player is entitled to err. You should respect that.

 

(By the way, sorry for getting into something that's not my business...)

[ArtK78]

Don't like WJS in contested auctions. Prefer fit jumps.

 

That is all well and good, but this partnership was playing weak jump shifts. And, if you are playing weak jump shifts, this hand certainly qualifies as one.

[the hog]

Ron, as much as you loath West's actions (I don't care for them much either), every player is entitled to err. You should respect that.

 

(By the way, sorry for getting into something that's not my business...)

 

I agree Nuno, I was a bit over the top. However as Art says, if you are playing wjs, then this hand is a wjs. You cannot criticise partner for making a system bid especially as you have, (presumably), agreed to the system. Then you come here and try for (undeserved) sympathy. By the way, I changed my comment.