Rebid after overcall

[Quartic]

[hv=pc=n&n=s64hjt8652daj6ckq&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p1h2d2sp]133|200[/hv]

 

You're playing modern Acol with a competent partner in a club teams event. 1♥ promises 4+ hearts, 11+ hcp. Your 1NT opening is 12-14.

[MrAce]

Unless 2♠ was NFB, we can not pass and that leaves us with 2 options which of both I do not like, but what else can I do?

 

-3♥

-3♠

 

I assume 2 NT would show a strong NT hand.

 

3♥ for me.

[guido]

3♥ seems clear. As I passed hand, it is highly unlikely I haveahand good enough for bidding three of a higher suit without support. Hence, 3♥ is/should be a fit non-jump.

[wodahs]

We play transfers there, starting with Double.

 

X = clubs

2NT = natural

3C = good+ diamond raise

3D = junk raise

 

So 3C it is

[Zelandakh]

You guys need to read the problem again. A FNJ (of my suit) and a Support Doubles (of partner's bid) do not apply here.

[whereagles]

Seems like we're endplayed into bidding 3♥, WTP?

[Trinidad]

I always thought that in Acol non jumps at the two level in suits that were hindered by the overcall were NFBs, showing about 8-11, so I would pass.

 

Am I completely wrong here?

 

Rik

[Zelandakh]

NFBs are not usually part of (English) Acol. They can be agreed of course.

[steve2005]

If there not playing NFB why is pass an option in poll??

 

I think its a NFB

[razorsharp]

Dontcha wish you had PASSED your trash? Garbage in, garbage out!

But now, facing extinction, I'll guess 2NT instead of 3H, as 10/11ththths of my HCP are outside OUR suitz!

razorsharp

[jdgalt]

I would bid 2NT if it were weak. But I think in this system it would be 15+, which I haven't got. 3H it is.

[MrAce]

Dontcha wish you had PASSED your trash? Garbage in, garbage out!

But now, facing extinction, I'll guess 2NT instead of 3H, as 10/11ththths of my HCP are outside OUR suitz!

razorsharp

 

- No

 

- Reread the OP

[the hog]

Dontcha wish you had PASSED your trash? Garbage in, garbage out!

But now, facing extinction, I'll guess 2NT instead of 3H, as 10/11ththths of my HCP are outside OUR suitz!

razorsharp

 

 

I am not sure what the word "dontcha" means, but if it is some sort of bastardisation of 'don't you', then no, I certainly wouldn't have passed. In Acol 2nt now shows 15-17, so I would bid 3H.

[the hog]

I always thought that in Acol non jumps at the two level in suits that were hindered by the overcall were NFBs, showing about 8-11, so I would pass.

 

Am I completely wrong here?

 

Rik

Yes, you are completely wrong. Some Acol experts played that a suit higher ranking than opener's was nf and a lower ranking suit was forcing. However, this is only common to certain experts and not universal by any means.No nfbs are part of normal Acol.

[EricK]

I bid 3♥ and I'm quite happy with it. If we end up too high because the hand is a misfit it's probably because partner should have doubled rather bid 2♠!

[Jinksy]

I bid 3♥ and I'm quite happy with it. If we end up too high because the hand is a misfit it's probably because partner should have doubled rather bid 2♠!

 

Why, would you have passed his X?

[Jinksy]

Btw, I don't agree with the people claiming 2N here should be 15-19 bal just because you're playing a weak NT. Here's my reasoning:

 

• 
   
  
• The main reason for having it as that in a constructive auction is to allow slam hunting with 18-19 point hands. Here, when LHO is strong enough for a 2-level overcall, you don't have good enough support to raise P, and, for a 2N bid, you need some values in their suit, which are unlikely to be pulling their weight in a slam.
  
• If you do have some sort of stellar 19 count with crisp values, 4N would surely show it.
  
• Opener's 3m would probably be GF. If 2♠ is forcing and 2N is strong, that leaves your only NF bids as 3♥ and 3♠ - neither of which is particularly appealing if you've opened on such as x QTxxx AJ9 KQxx
  

 

You could prob play 3m as forcing to 3M which would make strong 2N playable, but that's got its own problems.

 

So without discussion, 3♥ seems like a relatively benign alternative if I'm worried P might get too excited by 2N.

[campboy]

I think it's completely wrong for 2NT to show extras here if 2♠ is forcing (and yes, I do play a weak NT). You could well have no other call on an unbalanced minimum (typically a hand which would have bid 1♥ - 1♠ - 2♦ in an uncontested auction). If it had gone 1♠ (2♦) 2♥ it would be a different story, since 2 of opener's suit would still be available for a hand with nothing better to do.

[the hog]

<br>Btw, I don't agree with the people claiming 2N here should be 15-19 bal just because you're playing a weak NT. Here's my reasoning:<br><br><ul class="bbc"><li>The main reason for having it as that in a constructive auction is to allow slam hunting with 18-19 point hands. Here, when LHO is strong enough for a 2-level overcall, you don't have good enough support to raise P, and, for a 2N bid, you need some values in their suit, which are unlikely to be pulling their weight in a slam.</li><li>If you do have some sort of stellar 19 count with crisp values, 4N would surely show it.</li><li>Opener's 3m would probably be GF. If 2♠ is forcing and 2N is strong, that leaves your only NF bids as 3♥ and 3♠ - neither of which is particularly appealing if you've opened on such as x QTxxx AJ9 KQxx</li></ul><p><br><br>You could prob play 3m as forcing to 3M which would make strong 2N playable, but that's got its own problems. <br><br>So without discussion, 3♥ seems like a relatively benign alternative if I'm worried P might get too excited by 2N.<br>

Another poster who has clearly never played Acol. In Acol this is 15-a poor18, end of story.<br><br></p><p><br><br><br> </p><p> </p>

[Jinksy]

Another poster who has clearly never played Acol. In Acol this is 15-a poor18, end of story.<br><br></p><p><br><br><br> </p><p> </p>

 

This is starting to feel like cyberstalking. If you have no argument to make and nothing friendly to say, kindly stop singling out my posts for your lazy abuse.

[the hog]

This is starting to feel like cyberstalking. If you have no argument to make and nothing friendly to say, kindly stop singling out my posts for your lazy abuse.

 

Not at all. The op said he was playing Acol. You made totally incorrect comment in that context. The only onclusion possible is that you know nothing about Acol; so why post a comment?

[Jinksy]

A comment that various other people in the thread echoed, none of whom you've chosen to harass here.

 

As for knowing nothing about Acol, I live in the UK and play 'it' more than any other system. But 'Acol' in theory is a specific set of agreements memorialised on some document in the Acol club, which even the oldest players would consider too archaic to follow consistently (even if anyone knew exactly what it consisted of, which I'm willing to bet you don't). 'Acol' in practice is is wide array of partnership agreements starting with '4 card majors and weak NT' and having little more necessarily in common with each other than that, which is what I play - and it certainly does not have a baked-in meaning for the sequence above.

 

You might disagree with my reasoning as to why 2N is plausibly NF (perhaps one day you'll explain why if you have the wit), but you now need to acknowledge that I know something about Acol. So your comment was either prejudiced and based on your own ignorance, or abuse - hence cyberstalking. Which is it?

[Zelandakh]

It seems to me perfectly possible to play 2NT as not forcing here. Better still would be some form of Good/Bad. But it would be dangerous to do either without any agreement. Similarly, this seems like a good spot for transfers. The fact that the system is Acol is not really important other than that the NT range is weak.

 

From what I can see about the discussion Jinksy said he would rebid 3♥ too, so you are both in agreement. His argument was that disucussing the sequence and the possibility of playing 2NT as something other than 15+ balanced would be a good idea. Surely we can agree on that? It is always a good idea to discuss potentially awkward competitive sequences. So let's drop the clueless/stalker comments now, ok?

[Jinksy]

Zel, I'm not planning to pursue any vendetta against hog, nor am I a scared little teen, but I'm getting tired with him a) singling out my posts from a number that have reached the same conclusion to abuse me personally, and b) refusing to advance any argument for his position/against mine.

 

If he stops doing either, fine - end of story. If he keeps both up, then I hope the moderators will take action to stop it, so that I can enjoy this forum without a nagging feeling that I'm going to be attacked by a one-man lynch mob.

[Finch]

'Acol' in practice is is wide array of partnership agreements starting with '4 card majors and weak NT' and having little more necessarily in common with each other than that, which is what I play - and it certainly does not have a baked-in meaning for the sequence above.

 

There's nothing about weak NT which is specific to Acol. It was originally a strong NT, then variable. Acol is natural-based, 4-card majors and limit bidding (and in theory also has Acol two-bids). It's a 'bid what you feel like' system rather than any structured set of agreements.

 

As for this sequence, it's (IMO) unplayable to say that 2NT must be strong even if playing a weak NT. What are you supposed to rebid on a minimum 2542, 1543 or 2533 ?

I just asked Jallerton, who has won the English Premier League and the Camrose playing weak NT and Acol, and in his partnership 2NT is a minimum opening and non-forcing.