Return to Major is Slam Attempt?

[vodkagirl]

This is a 2/1 auction with a random partner. We are playing for imps.

 

[hv=d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1sp2cp2sp3sp4s]133|100[/hv]

 

Post mortem partner tells me that his 3♠ was a slam attempt. A straight bid of 4♠ would have been a sign off showing no slam interest.

 

Is this 3 level return a usual slam attempt in opener's major? If so, I am cue bidding and/or RKB right?

 

Many thanks for replies.

[helene_t]

This is a style question. I think it was Max Hardy who suggested that 4♠ here is a picture bid, i.e. showing a concentrations of values in the black suits. Something like HHx-xx-xx-HHxxxx.

[Stephen Tu]

I would say that 3♠ might be a slam try. It's unlimited. So opener should cue bid over 3♠. Best is if you have some gadget to distinguish between opener's minimums & stronger hands though.

 

Now whether 3♠ *promises* a slam attempt is up to agreement. There is some class of players that play 4♠ as basically "any minimum", so 3♠ promises extras. This is called "fast arrival". I think most good bidders don't like this way, because opener's 2♠ is unlimited. One of the supposed benefits of 2/1 is you save space for slam exploration. If responder is just going to jump to 4♠ very frequently, taking away your cue bidding room (opener might still be interested), then you've thrown away some your advantage of using 2/1. For these players, the jump to game is the "picture bid" described by Helene, concentration in the suits bid, no control (A/K/shortness) in the unbid suits.

[johnu]

This would be an excellent topic for the Novice and Beginner forum.

[ArtK78]

If you play fast arrival (which is usually - but not always - a part of 2/1 GF), any bid agreeing a suit below game is stronger than jumping to game in the suit. That assumes that the suit agreement is final. If you are searching for a place to play, then you don't have final suit agreement.

 

In this auction, 3♠ is stronger than 4♠. It is necessarily a slam try.

 

All of this assumes that you play fast arrival - not, as Helene says that Max Hardy suggests, that a jump to 4♠ would be a picture bid.

[mcphee]

Slow tends to be a hand where room is left for the partnership to explore slam chances. 3S sets trumps and leaves room, 4S generally shows a minimum 2/1 with no help in the red suits. We need to keep in mind the 2!S rebid can be a strong hand so its a good idea to make this jump descriptive.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

you are in a GF seq., and 3S simply showes the fit.

3S is not limiting the hand, so it implies some SI,

e.g. in case opener has undisclosed values, which he

may or may not have, depending on your suit quality

req. for a 3S jump rebid.

 

So opener should make a cue, best would be a cue in

the context of a (non) serious 3NT, to limit his hand.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[fromageGB]

We are talking random partners, and obviously no agreements such as non-serious 3NT. I would simply assume that 2♠ could be weak or strong, so 3♠ while not limiting the hand, does not imply slam interest. As opener I would cue with extra strength, and 4♠ without.

 

Your partner's method is obviously how he normally bids, but I personally would not assume that dubious style. Equally, he should not assume that you play his style and are denying all controls (if that was his assumption).

[the hog]

3S sets spades in my view. It says nothing about strength. That is why you need something like Serious/Non serious. I play 4S as a picture bid, as described by Helene above. I really dislike the method described by Art, however, who knows what a random partner plays?