Assign the blame

[Finch]

I'll say up front that I already have an opinion on how the blame should be shared - I hate it when people post a supposedly 'innocent' question, see the replies and then tell everyone they are wrong.

But I am interested to see other views. And I think it's an instructive hand.

 

NS play reverse attitude, standard count, and a lot of suit preference.

By the way, most of the blame on this deal goes to the EW bidding, but you aren't invited to comment on that.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=stht952dat72cqj93&w=skq953hq6dk83ca42&n=saj7642h43dq64c76&e=s8hakj87dj95ckt85&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=2s3hp4hppp]399|300[/hv]

 

10 of spades lead, King, Ace, 8

7 of clubs, 8, 9, Ace

Queen of hearts, 4, 7, 5

6 of hearts, 3, Ace, 2

King of hearts, 9, 3 of spades, 7 of spades

Jack of hearts, 10, 5 of spades, 6 of spades

Diamond 5, 2, King, 4

Queen of spades, 2, 9 of diamonds, 7 of diamonds

3 of diamonds, 6, jack, Ace

10 of diamonds, 8, Queen, ruff

10 of clubs.... claim

[winkle]

I must be missing something because I only see one error, by north, for not flying the DQ to return a club, so I would blame north 100%. I see north signals diamonds and south signals neutral sp in the trump suit which suggests this minor suit holding. South lied about the diamond count but I don't think south needs to give honest count that late in the hand, and declarer's diamond pitch suggests this layout.

 

Even if there were errors earlier in the play, I think north had enough information to fly Q, so that's a clear, 100% blame type error even if there were 100% errors elsewhere. And on defense the last error usually gets the most blame, since that's usually when one is armed with the most information, unless partner has flat out lied to me.

[mikeh]

Neat hand.

 

I think that S should have a reasonably good idea of the layout by trick 4, confirmed by trick 5.

 

He may not know if East is 1=5=2=5 or 1=5=3=4, and he won't know about the diamond J, but he should know about where the diamond Q is located, which gives him a chance to look brilliant.

 

He can duck the diamond towards dummy, and throw the diamond Ace on the spade K.

 

Now, if declarer exits a diamond, N has to win the Q (I mean, how can he duck on that defence?), and it is trivial for him to exit his last club.

 

We can see that N could have saved the game by giving a ruff at trick 2, but that is being double-dummy imo. We can see that N can save the game by going in with the diamond Q on the low from dummy, and exiting a club, and that seems easy enough. I can't readily construct a layout on which it is wrong to pop the Queen after declarer threw a diamond on the top spade.

 

It isn't very often that one gets to duck an Ace and then throw it away.

 

On balance, it seems to me that rising with the diamond Queen at trick 9, as the play went, is easier to find than the duck of the Ace followed by throwing it away, so I have to give most of the blame to N.

 

Btw, I think that even if declarer is 1=5=2=5, S can defend this way, since even tho declarer gets to jilt his second diamond, he has to then concede a club, and we tap him with our now penultimate diamond, and he has to yield a second club before his long card is good and we score our last diamond....which could, if everyone cooperated, be the beer card :P However, that requires declarer to unblock dummy's 8, and partner to play his part as well.

[winkle]

Pitching the ♦A would be a good play, which I missed, but to me that does not absolve north of any blame. Give east or west the ♦T and now south cannot pitch the ace, but the position from north's view is still the same.

 

I guess defense can also blame lady luck for dealing this exact club position where the play was relevant (swaping the ♣8 and ♣9 would yield the same position also).

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n

&s=stht952dat72cqj93&w=skq953hq6dk83ca42&n=saj7642h43dq64c76&e=s8hakj87dj95ckt85

&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=2s3hp4hppp

&p=stsksas8{

North can return anything except SJ or a diamond}c7c8c9cahqh4h7h5h6h3hah2hkh9s3s7hjhts5s6d5{

South correctly ducks}d2dkd4SQs2d9{

As the cards lie South can jettison DA}d7d3{

North must rise with Q}d6djdadtd8dqh8{Congratulations to declarer}ct]300|300| I'll say up front that I already have an opinion on how the blame should be shared - I hate it when people post a supposedly 'innocent' question, see the replies and then tell everyone they are wrong. But I am interested to see other views. And I think it's an instructive hand. NS play reverse attitude, standard count, and a lot of suit preference. By the way, most of the blame on this deal goes to the EW bidding, but you aren't invited to comment on that.[/hv]

[jogs]

Am I missing something? Doesn't a spade on trick 2 always beat 4♥?

[PhilKing]

I give about 17% each - it's the kind of position that usually gets mangled, and one needs to be on the ball to avoid giving declarer a chance. The early defence was well thought out - a spade return works OK here but is a weak defence on many layouts and is rarely necessary.

 

The reality is that these positions are usually muffed, so we would get away with misdefending most of the time.

[mikeh]

Am I missing something? Doesn't a spade on trick 2 always beat 4♥?

yes, but it is at least arguable that the failure to lead a spade was not an error.....remember, N can't see the hand and on some layouts the spade back is the only way to let the contract through. Later, the defence can play almost double dummy

[shyams]

Just a thought (I'm nowhere close to expert).

 

What if South played ♣Q to trick 2? I've heard experts play it to show contiguous honors. This might assist North in rising with ♦Q and exiting with ♣6

[mcphee]

Clear for N to pop QD and play a club. So I am giving N all the blame, well almost as S could have dumped the A on a S. I suppose as a last ditch effort S should do that, however I see it as all Norths error.

[steve2005]

Just a thought (I'm nowhere close to expert).

 

What if South played ♣Q to trick 2? I've heard experts play it to show contiguous honors. This might assist North in rising with ♦Q and exiting with ♣6

 

I like this -- sounds like out of a book "How to make your partner a better defender?"

[kenrexford]

Does a spade return at trick two make the diamond situation precarious in the end game? There are some elements of smothers and crocodiles and throw-ins lurking here.

 

 

[larlar]

North just fell asleep and made a bad play. Not popping with the queen of diamonds to play a club is ridiculous, north knew the diamond position at that point.

 

You don't really have to figure out the exact layouts where popping queen to play a club in this position wins. If you know what is happening in diamonds, you know it will be good to go up and shoot a club through rather than let your partner be in as a general principle. Once east and south pitch a diamond, the position is known.

 

Edit: To clarify that, if south had 5 clubs he would have pitched a club not a diamond, this is always true. Likewise, if east had 3 clubs and 4 diamonds he would have pitched a club and just driven the diamond.

[wanoff]

Mostly down to a wooden South. That's not to say, we don't all make predictable plays at times.

He should be discouraging the endplay with ♣J (keeping it real) before it's even known who has the ♦Q.

A spade at trick 2 was a possibility but doesn't look right.

As for pitching ♦A - too random for me.

[mikeh]

 

As for pitching ♦A - too random for me.

 

I think you mean too difficult for you: there is nothing random about it, if you understand the play to that point.

[benlessard]

Can I blame west for not bidding what I think is an obvious 3NT ?

 

Not returning spades is totally normal.

 

Going up with DQ inst too tough.

 

Jettison of the Da is not the type of play I like to rely on. I prefer to trust partner to go up Dq instead.

 

Very well played by declarer.

[bluecalm]

North 100%

It's clear after 2d that declarer is 1534.

If it was x AKJxx Axx Kxxx declarer would be claming.

If it's x AKJxx AJx xxxx inserting Qd doesn't hurt.

If it's x AKJxx Jxx KT85/KJ8x we need to hop with Qd

 

Tbh I fail to see any problem in this hand. I understand that S didn't signal Ad more carefully. Those high trump spots are sometimes useful and I don't expect partner always using them to signal. Maybe they could in this hand but as a rule I prefer them not throwing T/9 of trumps around and err on the safe side when signalling.

[mikeh]

Hi Frances

 

I think it unlikely that you'll get other views at this late date. I found the hand interesting, and would like to hear your views on fault.

[inquiry]

Well, if we overlook the 3♥ bid as an error, let's see if we can judge the Mistake on Defense.

 

Yes, North should win the ♦Q at trick nine, and yes, South could make it easier on north by throwing away the ♦Ace one trick earlier. But lets look to see if the signals could have been clearer earlier.

 

On the first round of hearts, both partners echo'ed in trumps. Let's assume they are playing trump suit preference. As South I would have been more empahtic with the nine first I think.

 

The first spade discard by north was the ♠7. I think that is ok, but I would have played ♠6 then ♠7 to make it clear a secondary honor in diamonds. But of course, if he read the ♥5-2 as diamond ace, it doesn't really matter. 76 or 67.

 

South has a pretty good count on North's hand (6=2=3=3 or maybe 6=2=4=1) from early on. The low diamond to the king completes the count. It is unclear why South played the ♦2 instead of the ♦5. Could south be 1=4=5=3? or 1=4=3=5? How about 1=4=2=6? If he is 1=5=2=6 north can not afford to fly the [di[Q, but south could have afforded to win the ♦Ace on the first round and exited a diamond.

 

So I guess North had the easier play (diamond queen, club continue), but South could have helped out with the ♦Ace discard (and maybe with a correct count in diamonds). So I give 67% to north, 33 % to South.

 

Now, Frances can tell us the whole story, Mike. :)