imp decision

[dboxley]

[hv=pc=n&s=sk965hkqt72dk2ca3&n=saj874hj54d5ct642&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp1d1h2d2h3ddp3hppp]266|200[/hv]

 

What went wrong?

[Bbradley62]

I'm guessing the spades were conveniently located so you made an overtrick?

[larlar]

After south makes a game try, north should bid a game. Not that it's a great game but south did have the (sort of) wasted DK.

[larlar]

After south makes a game try, north should bid a game. Not that it's a great game but south did have the (sort of) wasted DK.

[mcphee]

N could have been a little more competitive. N has a decent hand facing a heart overcall and could have doubled 2D responsive to get the black suits in the photo, far more helpful to south.

[mcphee]

N could have been a little more competitive. N has a decent hand facing a heart overcall and could have doubled 2D responsive to get the black suits in the photo, far more helpful to south.

[helene_t]

Mostly bad luck. If anything, North could have bid game.

[MrAce]

I would not blame anyone for this. And I am not known to be shy bidder.

[cherdano]

Sorry Timo, Helene, I think you are way off. Once South makes a game try (which he did by doubling 3♦) North clearly should bid game.

Not that there is much blame to go around, as everyone wrote it's a borderline game.

[gwnn]

I think S overbid a smidgen but N underbid by quite a bit. Hence they missed a thin game. S should get negative blame and N some significant positive blame. If they had reached the game and it had gone down, S should get positive blame and N no blame. :)

[dake50]

I'm guessing the spades were conveniently located so you made an overtrick? -- Bbradley62

 

*** That's a wildly likely assumption:

SQ single drops under SK

+SQx drops

+S:Q10xx onside discovered on SK

+they decide 5D-X is cheap.

The point is that's surely over VUL game percent and equal nv game percent.

[nekthen]

I think that South should double initially. The bidding demonstrates how hard it is to find the 5 -4 ♠when you have the 5-3 ♥fit.

After a double by South 2♠ by North should surely propel you to game.

With 5♠ and 4♥ the bidding is much easier for South bidding 1♠ followed by 2♥

[jogs]

What happened on this board? Did spades play better than hearts?

 

I think that South should double initially.

 

Advancer isn't going out of his way to bid clubs. Ax is sufficient clubs for the double.

[jogs]

What happened on this board? Did spades play better than hearts?

 

I think that South should double initially.

 

Advancer isn't going out of his way to bid clubs. Ax is sufficient clubs for the double.

[MrAce]

Sorry Timo, Helene, I think you are way off. Once South makes a game try (which he did by doubling 3♦) North clearly should bid game.

Not that there is much blame to go around, as everyone wrote it's a borderline game.

 

Then I think S can not make game try with hands like, which is actually better hand than the OP.

 

xx

KQxxx

Kx

AKxx

 

KQxx

Kxxxx

Kx

Ax

 

Ooops!

 

I don't mind bidding game with N hand. When seeing the ♥ T and 4 card spades headed by K yea, I would love to be in game. I would think pass is also very reasonable seeing only 1 hand. But I also would think who claims this was a clear decision by N to bid game and we are way off is exaggerating .

[Trinidad]

North forgot to open a Muiderberg?

 

;)

 

Rik

[cherdano]

Then I think S can not make game try with hands like, which is actually better hand than the OP.

 

xx

KQxxx

Kx

AKxx

 

KQxx

Kxxxx

Kx

Ax

 

Ooops!

 

I don't mind bidding game with N hand. When seeing the ♥ T and 4 card spades headed by K yea, I would love to be in game. I would think pass is also very reasonable seeing only 1 hand. But I also would think who claims this was a clear decision by N to bid game and we are way off is exaggerating .

 

If all the hands you are constructing are minimum gametries containing a wasted ♦K, then of course you construct a lot of hopeless games! You are out of space, whatever you do, you will either miss some games or get to some terrible ones, or both.

 

Maybe I was overstating my case, but you'll have to construct better examples to convince me of that :P

[case_no_6]

[hv=pc=n&s=sk965hkqt72dk2ca3&n=saj874hj54d5ct642&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp1d1h2d2h3ddp3hppp]266|200[/hv]

 

What went wrong?

What went wrong is that the 1H overcaller failed to show the potential to play in spades. I don't like to Double for takeout here if responder's bid in the other minor would be embarrassing as it is here.

 

Rather, in my way of thinking, a Michaels cue bid of 2D is right when holding 4 spades and 5 hearts or 5-5 in the majors. Partner will prefer to bid hearts without a clear preference and will be spades only with a clear preference.

 

I do not advocate the Michaels bid with unequal length in the majors when spades are longer, however. Notice that, had everyone's heart and spade holdings been reversed, the 1S overcaller (in the actual deal, the 1H overcaller) would have been able to compete with 3H to discover the heart fit.

[case_no_6]

[hv=pc=n&s=sk965hkqt72dk2ca3&n=saj874hj54d5ct642&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp1d1h2d2h3ddp3hppp]266|200[/hv]

 

What went wrong?

What went wrong is that the 1H overcaller failed to show the potential to play in spades. I don't like to Double for takeout here if responder's bid in the other minor would be embarrassing as it is here.

 

Rather, in my way of thinking, a Michaels cue bid of 2D is right when holding 4 spades and 5 hearts or 5-5 in the majors. Partner will prefer to bid hearts without a clear preference and will be spades only with a clear preference.

 

I do not advocate the Michaels bid with unequal length in the majors when spades are longer, however. Notice that, had everyone's heart and spade holdings been reversed, the 1S overcaller (in the actual deal, the 1H overcaller) would have been able to compete with 3H to discover the heart fit.

[case_no_6]

[hv=pc=n&s=sk965hkqt72dk2ca3&n=saj874hj54d5ct642&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp1d1h2d2h3ddp3hppp]266|200[/hv]

 

What went wrong?

What went wrong is that the 1H overcaller failed to show the potential to play in spades. I don't like to Double for takeout with 4 spades and 5 hearts if responder's bid in the other minor would be embarrassing as it would be here.

 

Rather, in my way of thinking, a Michaels cue bid of 2D is useful for showing hands interested in only the majors when holding 4 spades and 5 hearts or 5-5 in the majors. Partner will prefer to bid hearts without a clear preference and will bid spades only with a clear preference.

 

I do not advocate the Michaels bid with unequal length in the majors when spades are longer, however. Notice that, had everyone's heart and spade holdings been reversed, the 1S overcaller (in the actual deal, the 1H overcaller) would have been able to compete with 3H to discover the heart fit.

[case_no_6]

[hv=pc=n&s=sk965hkqt72dk2ca3&n=saj874hj54d5ct642&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp1d1h2d2h3ddp3hppp]266|200[/hv]

 

What went wrong?

What went wrong is that the 1H overcaller failed to show the potential to play in spades. I don't like to Double for takeout with 4 spades and 5 hearts if responder's bid in the other minor would be embarrassing as it would be here.

 

Rather, in my way of thinking, a Michaels cue bid of 2D is useful for showing hands interested in only the majors when holding 4 spades and 5 hearts or 5-5 in the majors. Partner will prefer to bid hearts without a clear preference and will bid spades only with a clear preference.

 

I do not advocate the Michaels bid with unequal length in the majors when spades are longer, however. Notice that, had everyone's heart and spade holdings been reversed, the 1S overcaller (in the actual deal, the 1H overcaller) would have been able to compete with 3H to discover the heart fit.

[ShirleyMqz]

Any time I try double with a hand like this my partner responds in clubs. I'm with case_no_6 here; I'd be inclined to fudge the spade length and bid Michaels. In the actual auction, North has no clue that his spade holding is so valuable and he may also be concerned about his length in small clubs; I wouldn't accept the game invite with his hand.

[jmcilkley]

[hv=pc=n&s=sk965hkqt72dk2ca3&n=saj874hj54d5ct642&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp1d1h2d2h3ddp3hppp]266|200[/hv]

 

What went wrong?

 

Well, my first though is "what strange bidding by S". Double then bidding a suit would show a 17+ point hand, Bidding a suit and then doubling would show the same - some hands are better to suited to doubling first and some to overcall first.

So, firstly, S only has 15 points and not 17. And secondly why is S doubling 3d anyway after partner has agreed hearts? That does NOT show 4 spades but for me is a penalty double of 3d. If S wants to bid on then he can rebid the agreed suit of hearts.

I would agree that it would be better on this hand for S to start with a double to show spades as well as hearts but game looks like a long shot with only a combined 21 points. I would be happy to play in 3h and if it's a bad score then others are taking silly risks.

[MrAce]

Well, my first though is "what strange bidding by S". Double then bidding a suit would show a 17+ point hand, Bidding a suit and then doubling would show the same - some hands are better to suited to doubling first and some to overcall first.

So, firstly, S only has 15 points and not 17. And secondly why is S doubling 3d anyway after partner has agreed hearts? That does NOT show 4 spades but for me is a penalty double of 3d. If S wants to bid on then he can rebid the agreed suit of hearts.

I would agree that it would be better on this hand for S to start with a double to show spades as well as hearts but game looks like a long shot with only a combined 21 points. I would be happy to play in 3h and if it's a bad score then others are taking silly risks.

 

In competition if there is no space between our suit and theirs, then dbl is invitation to game. If there is a space between our suit and theirs (at 3 level) then we use that space to invite. South bid perfectly. Btw 2 different path never shows the same.

[Vampyr]

I would also use the double as a game try, which North should (pretty clearly IMO) accept. His diamond singleton and outside ace are really valuable -- especially as he could have been raising very light. I don't agree with any of the methods to to try to show spades suggested by pervious posters. It would be nice, but life is not perfect. North could have made a fit non-jump if his partnership agreement is to do this with Jxx in partner's suit.