eagles123 Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 These hands came up in a teaching session teacher recommended one thing and I felt something else was kinda clear. interested in opinions :) [hv=pc=n&s=sj975hqt9863d87c7&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=pp1hdp]133|200[/hv] form of scoring: MP E/W play 4 card majors, will open the major with 4M4m32 thanks, Eagles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 text book 1♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jallerton Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 If we pass, at least two bad things can happen. 1. They might well make it, especially when we lack entries to get in and draw trumps.2. LHO might run to 1NT or 2m. Then we have to decide whether to bid 2♠ on the next round and/or stick partner's double of the runout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I would pass at IMPs w/o thinking much. You can win a lot of imps and 1♥ doubled making is hardly a bad score. They are red and we are unlikely to make game. At MP, it is close imo, but I would go with the state of session. If I believe we are in decent shape then I would not risk to get a bottom, even though it is unlikely that they will make. Spots matter and possibility that opener can have only 4♥ matters as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wackojack Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 1♠. Defending 1♥x you need to make 7 tricks. The 4-4 ♠fit will very likely make more tricks than the likely 6-1 heart fit. And what if partner has a heart void? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 1♠. Defending 1♥x you need to make 7 tricks. The 4-4 ♠fit will very likely make more tricks than the likely 6-1 heart fit. And what if partner has a heart void? What if your pd has no 4 card spades with a t/o shape 3145? What if your pd has a double and then bid 2♣ hand? What if you pd has a dbl and then bid 2♦ hand? What if your pd has a dbl and then bid NT hand? As I said it may be close at MP due to obvious reasons. Perhaps 1♠ better. However at IMPs, I would never turn back the opportunity to collect big numbers with the risk of letting them making 1♥ doubled. Lets assume for the sake of argument that pd has AKQx ♠ and out, AKQx x xxxx xxxx. You still can defeat 1♥ decent amount of time. They can score 3 minor tricks and 3 heart tricks if things go normal. I am aware that this is a very optimistic way to look at it, but I was extremely pessimistic when I gave pd only AKQx and out, all his hcps in our suit, which is a hopeless hand in defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 1S. This hand is certainly not good enough to pass 1H. You might consider passing at MPs if you need a top. Imps? Never! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 [hv=pc=n&s=sj975hqt9863d87c7&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=pp1hdp]133|200|These hands came up in a teaching session teacher recommended one thing and I felt something else was kinda clear. interested in opinions :) form of scoring: MP E/W play 4 card majors, will open the major with 4M4m32[/hv] IMO Pass = 10, 1♠ = 8, 1N = 6. Assuming they open 4 card majors, But 1♠ = 10, Pass = 9, If 1♥ promises 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Molyb Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 IMO Pass = 10, 1♠ = 8, 1NT = 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Clear 1♠. To compare Pass and 1♠. If you pass, effectively you are declaring 1♥, without the advantage to control a dummy. You are playing in a 6-1 fit with a known bad trump break.If you bid 1♠ you probably have an 8 card fit, control over the dummy and no reason to assume a bad trump split. If you look at it like that this is a no-brainer. Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jallerton Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Lets assume for the sake of argument that pd has AKQx ♠ and out, AKQx x xxxx xxxx. You still can defeat 1♥ decent amount of time. They can score 3 minor tricks and 3 heart tricks if things go normal. I am aware that this is a very optimistic way to look at it, but I was extremely pessimistic when I gave pd only AKQx and out, all his hcps in our suit, which is a hopeless hand in defense. Er, no. If partner holds that hand then Opener (assuming he holds ♥AKJxx) will make 5 heart tricks (think how the play might go). If he has 3 minor suit winners as well that's -360 which could easily be 10IMPs away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Er, no. If partner holds that hand then Opener (assuming he holds ♥AKJxx) will make 5 heart tricks (think how the play might go). If he has 3 minor suit winners as well that's -360 which could easily be 10IMPs away. Why does he have to have 5 card hearts when OP said they open 4 card majors and they open all 4M+4m hands with major ? But i see your point. Perhaps I should have used better words than "decent amount of time" I am aware they can make 1♥ even with AKJx vs that weak hand pd may hold in a fantasy world. Merely was trying to make a point that this hand vs a pd with normal t/o double, it is not hard to defeat 1♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles123 Posted April 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Well on this the teacher was right! I have no qualms in admitting that as he is a very good player The reason I thought pass is because of the colours: if p has a monster hand we'll get a better score defending and if p has a moderate type of hand, then it's probably a 1s/1h contract anyway I can't remember the exact opp hands, but defending hearts was best on this deal (but i accept that was probably just luck) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broze Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 I can't remember the exact opp hands, but defending hearts was best on this deal (but i accept that was probably just luck) Would you have actually got to defend 1Hx though or can the opps escape? The reason I think 1♠ is totally clear is that even if defending 1Hx is best, most of the time LHO is going to redouble for rescue or pull to his second suit and even if he does sit for 1Hx you are not at all guaranteed to get it off. After you pass if the auction continues (2C)-P-(P)- what are you going to bid? You might be missing a 4-4 ♠ fit but bidding spades now seems to overvalue your hand somewhat. Bidding 1S now is just going to lead to a much better auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles123 Posted April 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Would you have actually got to defend 1Hx though or can the opps escape? The reason I think 1♠ is totally clear is that most of the time LHO is going to redouble for rescue or pull to his second suit and even if he does sit for 1Hx you are not at all guaranteed to get it off. After you pass if the auction continues (2C)-P-(P)- what are you going to bid? You might be missing a 4-4 ♠ fit but bidding spades now seems to overvalue your hand somewhat. Bidding 1S now is just going to lead to a much better auction. well yeah, I can't remember the exact hands but lho had a 3-4-2-4 19 count or something so should/could have bid 1NT so you make a very good point. Thanks, Eagles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 I can't remember the exact opp hands, but defending hearts was best on this deal (but i accept that was probably just luck) I am usually a lucky guy http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 In SJSimon's book a similar hand comes up. Player decides to pass (he even has a stronger hand) and opener does in fact come up with a 4-card heart. The unlucky expert played conservatively, having come up with only one overtrick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Well on this the teacher was right! I have no qualms in admitting that as he is a very good playerOut of interest eagles, is your teacher from the BBO Acol Club? Or perhaps someone from your face to face bridge club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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