Cue-bid in response to negative X

[bd71]

Partner and I had some confusion over a basic sequence last night.

 

1m (1♠) X (P)

3♠

 

I assumed this was asking about a NT stopper (bid 3N if you have it), he thought it was a ♠ splinter in support of ♥.

 

Upon reflection, I realize that if partner wants to know if I have spades stopped, it's possible to get that through 2♠ which should elicit that from me if we allow that it's not automatically a strong heart raise.

 

But...questions for the collective wisdom of BBOF:

 

1. Does the splinter use of 3♠ sound right, are we missing anything?

2. Do we need to limit 2♠ to showing game-force heart support, or can it reasonably be used to find out about a ♠ stopper?

3. If 4th-seat had bid 2♠, I assume 3♠ is best played as asking about NT stopper...agreed?

[ahydra]

1) SPL sounds sensible because 2S can ask for the stop.

2) 2S could be any big hand - not necessarily game-forcing, though in this sequence it probably should be. One of the main uses is to find out about a spade stop, e.g. a 17 BAL (or 18, if playing 15-17 NT) that does not have one. Very big hands that are not two-suited e.g. 5431, 4441 might also bid 2S, but the primary focus is on finding a stop.

3) Agree.

 

On a side note what's with all the multiposts? This topic has two copies, another one in this forum has six!

 

ahydra

[MrAce]

To me

3♠ is splinter

2♠ is a gate to express one of a lot of strong hand types, including strong balanced hands without a stopper.

 

1 NT by opener does not warrant a stopper nor denies it. It shows the shape such as xxx Ax Kxxxx KQx. If you are not comfortable with this you may bid 2♣ or 2♦ but they have their own problems and if anyone thinks they are minor problems, I disagree with them. If you bid 1NT w/o a stopper you have plenty of room to investigate it if necessary.

[whereagles]

2♠ usually shows a non-descript GF hand (17+ or thereabouts).

 

3♠ is undiscussed in like 99.9% of partnerships. Usually undiscussed bids are natural, but here it doesn't make much sense. It is a somewhat irresponsible bid because many interpretations are possible, so if stuff goes wrong, perpetrator gets the blame and should be prepared for it.

[Zelandakh]

The most basic rule for a splinter is an unnecessary jump. Since 2♠ is forcing, 3♠ qualifies under this definition. Therefore I would assume 3♠ is a splinter without any further discussion. As it happens, it is also difficult to come up with a better meaning without getting into something impractically complex. As a challenge to whereagles, what are the "many interpretations" that would be reasonable for a normal pair without special agreements playing a natural bidding system?

[MrAce]

2♠ usually shows a non-descript GF hand (17+ or thereabouts).

 

3♠ is undiscussed in like 99.9% of partnerships. Usually undiscussed bids are natural, but here it doesn't make much sense. It is a somewhat irresponsible bid because many interpretations are possible, so if stuff goes wrong, perpetrator gets the blame and should be prepared for it.

 

1m-♠-x = I was gonna bid 1♥ pd, now I can't bid it at 2 level because I don't have 5 of them or I don't have enough hcp to bid at 2 level or both.

 

3♠ is whatever it would be over 1♥. The reason that it is not discussed in %99.9 of the pdships,( if that number is correct, which I strongly believe you just pulled this percentage up from your **** btw) is probably because it is so obvious to everyone else but you.

 

EDIT: In fact I will go one step further and claim that, 3♠ can be something other than splinter ONLY IF DISCUSSED. When undiscussed it is splinter.

[whereagles]

what are the "many interpretations" that would be reasonable for a normal pair without special agreements playing a natural bidding system?

 

Well, I can think of:

 

1. Splinter in support of hearts

2. Auto splinter with 1-suiter in the opening minor

3. Stopper ask with solid minor

4. A very strong 2-suiter in the minors

 

I'm pretty sure the list is not exaustive. Obviously, people can always say "hand type XYZ can be bid via [fill-in], so it must be hand type W", but in practice a mix-up is very much possible. Which is why I would refrain from making bids like this (blame-transfer bids). It's not clear they're winning bids.. certain they are not healthy.