An unusual sequence

[Poky]

Expert partner.

 

1♣ - 1♦

1♥ - 2NT (bal invite)

3♠

[inquiry]

I do not play this bid as an attempt to get into spades, perhaps because as responder I play Walsh style so I would have responded 1♠ with four rather than bid diamonds. So with partner not having four spades, I will not be in a rush to to introduce spades here "to play" in spades. This rule out 4405 hands by opener, despite the nice "bid out shape" sound to it.

 

With spades-hearts-and-clubs, I just let the hand play in some level of Notrump. So to move out of Notrump I need one of five hand types...

 

Type one. Six+ clubs and five hearts. Here I rebid hearts

Type two. Six plus clubs, four hearts, and weak, I pull to 3C to play.

Type three. Six plus clubs, four hearts, strong

Type four. Short spades, some kind of decent diamond support, invite

Type five. Short spade, some kind of decent diamond support, strong.

 

Type one and two are easy. But what about type 3? Do you want to jump to jump to 4♣ and potentially miss 3NT? Same thing with type four.

[hv=s=sxxhkqxxdacakjxxx]133|100|Ok so with great hand for 1C opening, like one, I rebid 3♠ (well not these days, beccause I play 2NT on this auction by responder as part of xyz and as transfer to 3♣..but if 2NT was natural). This says, great hand, great clubs, game force, but willing to stop in 3NT if partner misfits.

[/hv] [hv=s=sxxhkqxxdacakjxxx]133|100|Ok so with great hand for 1C opening, like one, I rebid 3♠ (well not these days, beccause I play 2NT on this auction by responder as part of xyz and as transfer to 3♣..but if 2NT was natural). This says, great hand, great clubs, game force, but willing to stop in 3NT if partner misfits.

[/hv]

I use 3♦ as diamond raise invite (willing to go to 4♦, and a jump to 4♦ over 2NT as great raise with spade splinter. I use four hearts as "diamond void" and great clubs (setting clubs as trumps).. likely distribution is 2-4-0-6 or 1-4-0-7 (since 3♥ rebid would be forcing). It is sometimes nice to be able to splinter in your partners suit... consider this hand..

[hv=w=sqxhkqxxdcakxxxxx&e=saxxhaxdqxxxcxxxx]266|100|1C-1D

1H-2N

4H-4N (two suit RKCB)

5C-5D

7C-Pass[/hv]

On this one, 4NT was six suit RKCB, 5D asked about the queens. With extra club legnth, and with heart queen, and a partner looking for grand slam, WEST just bids the grand.

A jump to 4♠ over 2NT also agrees clubs as trumps, but shows a spade void and is RKCB for hearts and clubs. Note, with a less strong hand, and spade void, bid 3♠ then 4♠.

 

Anyway... this is how I think it should be played... but note, my partner with club fit and 11-12 doesn't start by bidding 1♦.. if your partner will bid 1♦ with three small in a 3-2-3-5 hand with five clubs, you might need a better way to make sure they are not going to rip you in diamonds in 3NT when you are 4405 and 4414....

 

Ben

 

PS.. I took the liberty of adding the last poll option to include patterns where opener wants to "establish" clubs as the trump suit (or potential trump suit) in line with my belief....

[mike777]

Playing Walsh, we know p has 5+clubs and only 4 hearts and short spades. Now as responder I would try and make the best rebid to show my values.

[luke warm]

i voted for 1435, and i see i'm the only one lol... i think 3♠ is saying "i heard your 2nt but i'm still somewhat worried bout this suit... are you?"

 

of course it *could* be 4414 or 4405 :)

[cherdano]

I think the interesting questions is what default agreements might be applicable here, that would clarify the meaning of this bid, even though you have never discussed this sequence.

 

If responder cannot have 4 spades, it must be a cue bid. I have seen a suggestion, I believe by Eric Kokish, for the following agreement:

The cheapest available cue bid is always choice of games, if that is a possible meaning. (I.e. we haven't set trumps yet, and it is below 2 of our possible games.)

 

This would most likely be COG between 3NT and 5♣ here, and the hand type would have to somewhere aong the lines of Ben's descriptions. Or possibly COG between 3NT and 5♦. Hmm.

 

Arend

[inquiry]

What can I say? EOK is a bidding genius.... so of course he (and by association my bid) is right.

 

 

Ben

[Rebound]

i voted for 1435, and i see i'm the only one lol... i think 3♠ is saying "i heard your 2nt but i'm still somewhat worried bout this suit... are you?"

 

of course it *could* be 4414 or 4405 :)

Sticking to the KISS principle, I take 3♠ here to mean just the opposite. I would say it shows a desire to play 3NT but with a problem in the diamond suit. I.e. my vote was for 3415...

[the hog]

Strong hand 3415 / 3406 bidding out shape.

[EricK]

I hate this sort of question!

 

There is loads of information we are not being told to help us come to a decision.

 

1. What system are we playing?

2. What would 1♣ 2NT mean?

3. If the answer to 2. is balanced invitational, then what have I shown with 1♦?

3. What has opener promised in terms of suit lengths in ♣/♥?

4. What would responder call with 4 ♠and 4 ♦?

5. Does the answer to 3. depend on the strengths of the suits?

6. How much discussion about methods have we had?

7. What does my partner think my level of play is?

8. Do we come from the same country so there may be some assumed agreements?

 

For what it's worth, in a pick up partnership I would expect it to be naturalish and strong, either 4-4-0-5 or 3-4-1-5 or 3-4-0-6. I would respond 3NT if my ♦ were strong else bid 4♣ or 4♥ or (rarely) 4♠.

 

Eric

[whereagles]

This is a matter or partnership discussion. Without any, and in line with the basic principle "if it's not discussed, it's natural" I'd take it as 3415 or thereabouts.