Vampyr Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Now this deserved a reply but I don't want the topic to be locked. I thought my posts were predictable; why are you wasting your time reading them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I thought my posts were predictable; why are you wasting your time reading them? If i said "predictable" for your posts in the past, I was probably trying not to get kicked from BBF. FYI, I read almost every reply if the topic is somewhat interesting for me....well...maybe not the ones with too many ♥ symbols or the ones which are written in Italian.(or any other language that I do not know) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Barmar, I guess I have to look it up myself again. I *believe* that the way they pulled it off was to arrive separately, with Sontag being "not quite so good" in the marked game for a couple of days before, and thus the locals thinking, once their juicy mark arrived, that they could take the two fish straight up (what with it being a wash for the conmen, as well, the two times out of three that it wasn't Sontag-client v. local-local). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhchung Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 That sounds right. Which makes me wonder why the perpetrators would have allowed Sontag into the game, if the only way the con worked was to have 3 collaborators versus 1 mark. If I could find the book, I expect he explained how he managed to get into it. This also reminds me of the rule in the "Survivor" and "Big Brother" TV shows -- the players are not allowed to form alliances based on an agreement to split the winnings. They have to have a financial incentive to try to win. maybe you really should just go read the chapter instead of accusing sontag of cheating and then retracting and then wondering how it all happened :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) If i said "predictable" for your posts in the past, I was probably trying not to get kicked from BBF. You have a serious problem. Edited April 9, 2014 by inquiry for content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) You have a serious problem. You quoted me, and then asked me a question, and got an answer. If you can not handle it, why do you quote me ? http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif Edited April 9, 2014 by inquiry To remove text from the earlier post quote that had been edited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 How can anyone get the hand records ? I mean i can use my imagination how one can get them maybe one time, somehow, but how can he get it all the time, or frequently ?Is English your first language? If not, why not write in your first language, and I can use Google Translate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpyder Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Is English your first language? If not, why not write in your first language, and I can use Google Translate?I think this is an extraordinarily unnecessary post. I, for one, appreciate MrAce's consideration in writing in English so that I don't need to use Google Translate. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Is English your first language? If not, why not write in your first language, and I can use Google Translate? I had a private conversation via pm with one of the good players here. I thought there was a player who was being suspected of getting the hand records. Or at least that is what I thought was implied.. So i wondered how could it be possible to get the hand records more than just 1 time for consistency of the cheating. And no English is not my native language. It gets even worse when i am intoxicated. Sorry if I gave you hard time..., but i am sure you will get over it http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/dd/05/44/dd0544eafe2e692c573ed0ab8a936685.jpg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/dd/05/44/dd0544eafe2e692c573ed0ab8a936685.jpg The pen is mightier than the sword, getting your spacing wrong can be embarrassing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Look at how we are tip-toeing around naming the name of the cheat who stole hand records. With a few exceptions, the consequences of cheating seem to be minimal. Also, directors have little incentive to catch/report/punish cheats. Isn't the directors' pay, in most cases, tied to how big the game is? In that situation, why would you ever look to turn a player away for any reason (imo this is related to many other problems with club and local tournament level bridge). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRW Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Look at how we are tip-toeing around naming the name of the... ...(imo this is related to many other problems with club and local tournament level bridge). That was one of the more sensible things I've heard about this whole matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Look at how we are tip-toeing around naming the name of the cheat who stole hand records. With a few exceptions, the consequences of cheating seem to be minimal. Cheating accusations are taken very seriously, and we want people to be very circumspect. Within the bridge community, it's almost analogous to accusing a teacher of molesting a child -- even if you're exonerated, it can be nearly impossible to get your reputation back. So we try to avoid naming names. The most notorious cases tend to get out through the grapevine, but we still pay lip service by not talking about the perpetrators publicly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca21 Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 This entire cheating business is rubbish. The american team was simply outplayed in the final. They lost because they missed a grand and a slam. It is probably hard to digest that for a team of professionals who are payed to play and receive large bonuses for winning, while their opponents are amateurs, none of them making a living out of bridge. There is a financial interest involved here. And there is something to be said about sad losers..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 A while ago, someone posted a link to detailed ratings for top partnerships: how many IMPs they won/lost in bidding/declarer play/defense etc. Anyone remember the source? Googling only turned up Pavlicek's list; but my vague memory suggests that there someone had compiled a rating based on a larger database of results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 This entire cheating business is rubbish. The american team was simply outplayed in the final. They lost because they missed a grand and a slam. It is probably hard to digest that for a team of professionals who are payed to play and receive large bonuses for winning, while their opponents are amateurs, none of them making a living out of bridge. There is a financial interest involved here. And there is something to be said about sad losers.....Just for the record, current upvotes are from vang and the_hog... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Just for the record, current upvotes are from vang and the_hog... So what? Are they not allowed to agree with bianca, or we shd not care that they agree? What's the idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 So what? Are they not allowed to agree with bianca, or we shd not care that they agree? What's the idea?Of course they are allowed to agree, and every reader can decide for themselves whether that's a wise opinion, or an opinion biased by anti-americanism, or a useful advocatus diaboli counter-point. They clearly wanted everyone to know about their opinion, and I am just helping them spread it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 This entire cheating business is rubbish. The american team was simply outplayed in the final. They lost because they missed a grand and a slam. It is probably hard to digest that for a team of professionals who are payed to play and receive large bonuses for winning, while their opponents are amateurs, none of them making a living out of bridge. There is a financial interest involved here. And there is something to be said about sad losers.....Of course they are allowed to agree, and every reader can decide for themselves whether that's a wise opinion, or an opinion biased by anti-americanism, or a useful advocatus diaboli counter-point. They clearly wanted everyone to know about their opinion, and I am just helping them spread it.You need not agree with that opinion, but why was that opinion biased by anti-americanism? Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 You need not agree with that opinion, but why was that opinion biased by anti-americanism? Rainer HerrmannThat is not what he said. But that was one of the available options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 This entire cheating business is rubbish. The american team was simply outplayed in the final. They lost because they missed a grand and a slam. It is probably hard to digest that for a team of professionals who are payed to play and receive large bonuses for winning, while their opponents are amateurs, none of them making a living out of bridge. There is a financial interest involved here. And there is something to be said about sad losers..... So, basically you are calling the Americans and WBF observers who witnessed the coughing and matched the number of coughs to suit distributions liars. :rolleyes: I suppose this must also also apply to the WBF observer at the Cavendish tournament who witnessed the same pattern of coughs. Strong talk from someone who joined this forums just to make to make an inflammatory post. Have you watched the videos from Bali? Do you have any relationship with the German doctors? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullve Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Have YOU watched the videos from Bali? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Of course they are allowed to agree, and every reader can decide for themselves whether that's a wise opinion, or an opinion biased by anti-americanism, or a useful advocatus diaboli counter-point. They clearly wanted everyone to know about their opinion, and I am just helping them spread it. You need not agree with that opinion, but why was that opinion biased by anti-americanism? Rainer Herrmann You are welcome to find a more charitable explanation. It's not completely irrational (but still very wrong) to think that the evidence does not prove beyond any reasonable doubt that they cheated. But if you think it's likely that they didn't cheat, you must have approached the evidence with some prior bias... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diana_eva Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Have YOU watched the videos from Bali? The 4 videos posted by Traian are not all the videos analyzed during the investigation. Traian published those videos for viewers' "entertainment" - not as full and compelling evidence of anything. FWIW I trust the WBF conducted a thorough investigation and wouldn't have risked such a scandal without solid evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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