where can i find..........

[chicken]

the ACBL ONLINE-BRIDGE regulations?

 

a fellow td told me that the weak 2 in a major doesnt have to be alerted according

to the above mentioned rules...........(did i say that i got a bottom, because i didnt x)

 

 

chicken

[hrothgar]

The ACBL publishes its alert charts on its web page. You can access the alert chart directly at http://www.acbl.org/play/alertchart.html

 

As far as I understand matters, the ACBL's alert structures don't explictly distinquish between face-to-face competition and online events...

 

This chart explictly notes that " Weak, natural 2D, 2H or 2S" bids are not alertable.

[Gerben47]

Sorry chicken but you cannot hide behind "they did not alert" and say that is why you had a bottom, because:

 

a) A weak two bid is a very common choice for 2D / H / S

B) If you had a hand that might double a weak two you should ask if the bid is a weak 2

 

I'm sure that some sponsoring organizations do everything to protect those who sit there and don't ask and rather get their points through the director, but that is not the way to go.

[Walddk]

the ACBL ONLINE-BRIDGE regulations?

 

a fellow td told me that the weak 2 in a major doesnt have to be alerted according

to the above mentioned rules...........(did i say that i got a bottom, because i didnt x)

 

 

chicken

A weak 2 is not alertable, and even if it was, the opponents are not exempts from protecting themselves just because there is no alert. It's a common misconception that defenders can claim "damage" and get an adjusted score because an alertable bid was not alerted.

 

There must have been *damage* for an adjustment to be considered, and players who did not ask what the bid meant will get no adjustment by any certified director. A simple question would have avoided any possible damage.

 

If the defenders decide to appeal the TD's ruling, I am sure that it will be deemed an appeal without merit (frivolous is another term), and the deposit forfeited.

 

Roland Wald

Certified TD

[chicken]

tx all,

i didnt intend to claim damages, i only wanted to be sure that this rule existed.

at the table i asked, but misunderstanding occured. "6+" was meant as HCP and i understood it as length. blame me :-)

[MickyB]

There must have been *damage* for an adjustment to be considered, and players who did not ask what the bid meant will get no adjustment by any certified director. A simple question would have avoided any possible damage.

 

If the defenders decide to appeal the TD's ruling, I am sure that it will be deemed an appeal without merit (frivolous is another term), and the deposit forfeited.

 

Roland Wald

Certified TD

This creates other problems. Say on the auction 1NT-(P)-2D you would like to make a lead directing double of 2D if it is a transfer, which is alertable where I play; If you ask only to find out that it is weak takeout, opps may feel aggrieved if your partner then makes a marginal takeout double.

 

There must be a line somewhere for when you are not expected to ask about an unalerted bid, but I wouldn't like to guess where that line is.

[LH2650]

There must have been *damage* for an adjustment to be considered, and players who did not ask what the bid meant will get no adjustment by any certified director. A simple question would have avoided any possible damage.

 

If the defenders decide to appeal the TD's ruling, I am sure that it will be deemed an appeal without merit (frivolous is another term), and the deposit forfeited.

 

Roland Wald

Certified TD

I disagree strongly.

 

This philosophy invites, or even forces, leading questions. The second and third asterisks on Law 20 (Review and Explanation of Calls) in the current ACBL Lawbook explicitly indicate that questions about the meanings of bids may lead to the application of Law 16 (Unauthorized Information). Asking questions can damage your side.

 

Law 21 (Call Based on Misinformation) states that a failure to give a timely alert provides misinformation, and that the Director may award an adjusted score.

 

Yes, there must be damage in order to have an adjustment, but there is nothing in Law requiring you to protect yourself from opponent's failures to alert.

[epeeist]

....

A simple question would have avoided any possible damage.

....

Roland Wald

Certified TD

 

I disagree strongly.

 

This philosophy invites, or even forces, leading questions. The second and third asterisks on Law 20 (Review and Explanation of Calls) in the current ACBL Lawbook explicitly indicate that questions about the meanings of bids may lead to the application of Law 16 (Unauthorized Information). Asking questions can damage your side.

....

Asking questions in online bridge can't damage you, at least nor for the reasons you give.

 

Question may lead to UI in a face-to-face situation; but online, one's partner will not even be aware that one has asked a question. When an explanation for the opponent's bid appears on the bid, they have no way of knowing that was because of your request, rather than a delayed alert.

 

However, to avoid even the possibility that one's partner could infer something, one could simply send chat only to the opponent who made the bid, and neither your partner, nor their partner, would be aware of any question or answer.

 

Of course, I agree that if e.g. you have to ask about the meaning of a bid, that may give your opponents a clue that you're interested in the bid, meaning you're more likely to have outstanding high-card strength, or a void, or something...which is part of why I try always to ask about unusual bids, whether I care or not (within reason and time permitting, of course).

[Walddk]

Yes, there must be damage in order to have an adjustment, but there is nothing in Law requiring you to protect yourself from opponent's failures to alert.

You are missing the point. RHO opens 2anysuit and you hold say a balanced 16 count. The opening bid was not alerted, so you pass and so does everyone else. Do you really think that you can claim damage afterwards because there was no alert of the 2any? Even if it had been alertable?

 

Sorry no. You must try to get your points from elsewhere. No sensible TD would award you anything. In fact, he should tell you that it's your own fault that you didn't bid on the hand.

 

No one will ask any question unless he or she has an errand. You had one with your 16 count, and yet you didn't act.

 

Roland

[LH2650]

Yes, there must be damage in order to have an adjustment, but there is nothing in Law requiring you to protect yourself from opponent's failures to alert.

You are missing the point. RHO opens 2anysuit and you hold say a balanced 16 count. The opening bid was not alerted, so you pass and so does everyone else. Do you really think that you can claim damage afterwards because there was no alert of the 2any? Even if it had been alertable?

 

Sorry no. You must try to get your points from elsewhere. No sensible TD would award you anything. In fact, he should tell you that it's your own fault that you didn't bid on the hand.

 

No one will ask any question unless he or she has an errand. You had one with your 16 count, and yet you didn't act.

 

Roland

I see no specific hand presented, and no claim by the originator that there should be an adjustment in this case, so this is a generic question. The generic answer is that you do not have to ask questions in order to later successully prosecute a claim of damage due to misinformation. In ACBL-land, 2 diamonds is a weak two-bid unless Alerted. You are allowed to act based on that assumption. If your action works poorly because the opponents are playing something else, and you have a reasonable claim that you would have taken a different action given the correct information, you are entitled to an adjustment.