What To Bid

[eagles123]

I was shown this hand in a teaching session, both hands were shown and when I said what I though N should bid teacher basically said I was resulting! maybe I was but I thought what I suggested was fairly clear so just looking for opinions :)

 

I'll post full hand later.

 

System is Benji Acol: a 2C opening would have shown an 8 playing trick hand. 1NT is old fashioned ACOL non-forcing. Vulnerability unknown, form of scoring MP in a fairly weak field.

 

 

 

[hv=pc=n&n=sa85hakqt863dj86c&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp1np]133|200[/hv]

 

thanks,

 

Eagles

[Cyberyeti]

You bid 3N and dummy had xxx, xx, Axxx, J109x ? The teacher said bid 3♥ ?

 

I'd probably bid 2♠ on this hand as a probe, as if partner shows stops with 2N I'm bidding 3, if he bids 3♠ I bid 4♥, hopefully he has KQx, xx, xxxx, xxxx.

[billw55]

I would open 1♥, and rebid 3♥ over most responses including 1NT.

 

System is Benji Acol: a 2C opening would have shown an 8 playing trick hand.

I am not knowledgeable on this system, but doesn't this hand have 8 playing tricks?

[broze]

4H. Not good enough for 4C, too good for 3H. Not good enough for 3NT whatever it means. 4H plays opposite KQD and out for example.

[helene_t]

I voted for 3♥ but it is a bit of a blame transfer. Partner won't know that we need help in diamonds and spades, but not in hearts. So maybe we should just bid 4♥.

[Cyberyeti]

 

I am not knowledgeable on this system, but doesn't this hand have 8 playing tricks?

 

Yes it does, but I don't think it's actually an EBU legal 2♣ opener as (points+length of 2 longest suits<25) and it doesn't have 8 clear cut tricks (you budget for a heart loser by that definition).

[ggwhiz]

I voted for 3♥ too.

 

It's not perfect. We will miss a heart game opposite some crumbs but get to 3nt opposite others.

[mike777]

3nt

I like to bid games

[aguahombre]

Yes it does, but I don't think it's actually an EBU legal 2♣ opener as (points+length of 2 longest suits<25) and it doesn't have 8 clear cut tricks (you budget for a heart loser by that definition).

I don't think I would like a jurisdiction where a suit likely to play for 7 tricks opposite a void is not allowed to be called 7 tricks, and a 2C opening with 8 tricks is permissible, but only if we meet some other arbitrary "rule of..." requirement. Benji Acol sure sounds like a British style, and I assume you are allowed to use it there.

 

This doesn't imply that my style lets me open 2C with this hand; only that the OP's stated conditions do allow for it. I hope the ACBL lets me call this 8 real for hearts, so I can use our NAMYATS 4C toy.

[helene_t]

Change ♥T to ♥J and it becomes a legal 2♣ opening but that doesn't mean that 2♣ would be a good choice. It also fits the definition of a 1♥ opening so you have a (better) choice.

[Cyberyeti]

I don't think I would like a jurisdiction where a suit likely to play for 7 tricks opposite a void is not allowed to be called 7 tricks, and a 2C opening with 8 tricks is permissible, but only if we meet some other arbitrary "rule of..." requirement. Benji Acol sure sounds like a British style, and I assume you are allowed to use it there.

 

This doesn't imply that my style lets me open 2C with this hand; only that the OP's stated conditions do allow for it. I hope the ACBL lets me call this 8 real for hearts, so I can use our NAMYATS 4C toy.

 

The definition of clear cut tricks is not arbitrary, basically take your suit, give partner a void, take the second most favourable break ie 4-2 with the high cards in the long hand for clear cut tricks (and there's a HCP restriction which this hand meets). Benji Acol is legal, what they were trying to legislate against is actually a different issue, you can open this hand a strong 2♥ provided your disclosure is adequate, but what they didn't want was people opening a technically "strong" 2♣ with AKQ to 8 and out ie not a strong hand.

[the_clown]

3N or 4♥ could be right, not bidding game would never occur to me.

[Vampyr]

2C opening with 8 tricks is permissible, but only if we meet some other arbitrary "rule of..." requirement. Benji Acol sure sounds like a British style, and I assume you are allowed to use it there.

 

You don't have it quite right. In Benji a 2 ♣ opener is defined as 8 playing tricks, perhaps with a balanced option (and I believe it should have opening HCP); it is a 2♦ opener which must meet the extended rule of 25.

[neilkaz]

You bid 3N and dummy had xxx, xx, Axxx, J109x ? The teacher said bid 3♥ ?

 

I'd probably bid 2♠ on this hand as a probe, as if partner shows stops with 2N I'm bidding 3, if he bids 3♠ I bid 4♥, hopefully he has KQx, xx, xxxx, xxxx.

I like this idea. Hopefully PD is not permitted to jump to 4♠ thinking that you have a 5-6 major suit monster.

[aguahombre]

I didn't know the EBU had official dogma about solid 7-card suits. On my planet, AKQTXXX, requiring 33 or doubleton jack if pard is void, and much less if partner has one, is acceptable to be called a solid 7 tricks.

[kenrexford]

I have often wondered. In this sequence, a rebid by Opener of 2S as a true suit reverse to force seems somewhat wasted, because partner assuredly lacks a 4-card spade suit. This seems like the one reverse sequence that is most useful as a fudged artificial force, and yet it is also the most likely to be missed as an option to solve bidding problems. Must be the more against faking spades.

 

I mean, here's a three - card fragment just sitting there begging for a mention. If Opener obliges, good things can happen. Maybe partner shows a doubleton heart with a non - bust hand. Maybe he shows a diamond suit. Maybe he raises spades. Worst case is a 2NT reply, but how bad is that?

[eagles123]

thanks folks, interesting stuff. I thought it was a 4♣ bid and the more I looked at it the more I thought so and I say this because the system is benji. I.e. if it was any stronger it would be a 2♣ opening so the self splinter would be limited by the fact the hand hadn't opened with 2♣

 

but as I say probably just resulting, other hand was

 

xxx

x

AKQxx

xxxx

[mike777]

thanks folks, interesting stuff. I thought it was a 4♣ bid and the more I looked at it the more I thought so and I say this because the system is benji. I.e. if it was any stronger it would be a 2♣ opening so the self splinter would be limited by the fact the hand hadn't opened with 2♣

 

but as I say probably just resulting, other hand was

 

xxx

x

AKQxx

xxxx

 

If 3nt rebid shows solid h and a big hand that at least gives responder an option to pass or bid.

otoh if you play 3nt here as somewhat random...tougher.

[Cyberyeti]

thanks folks, interesting stuff. I thought it was a 4♣ bid and the more I looked at it the more I thought so and I say this because the system is benji. I.e. if it was any stronger it would be a 2♣ opening so the self splinter would be limited by the fact the hand hadn't opened with 2♣

 

but as I say probably just resulting, other hand was

 

xxx

x

AKQxx

xxxx

 

My partner always has xxx, x, xxxx, KQJxx when I autosplinter :) 4♥-2

 

He certainly doesn't have what you posted as he bid 2♦ with that

[steve2005]

I rebid 4♣ hopefully a self-splinter with solid ♥ and not the usually useless Gerber.

 

and I agree this is a 2♣ Benji opening. AKQ 7th is good enough for 6-card suit would need AKQJ. it just plain statistics like

aguahombre said

[MrAce]

I would bid 4♥ now

 

Scoring matters though, at MP i may and would probably choose 3♥

 

I disagree that 4♣ is auto, but close. However as you stated if Acol or B.Acol has a tool to open differently the hands that are a little stronger than this, then you have a point about self-splinter. Because then this is as much as you will ever hold with this bid.

[wank]

9 is easier than 10. i want to play 3nt if partner has clubs covered, so i start with 2♠. 4♥ would also be acceptable.

 

partner's not going to know which cards are useful or not for game when you've got this shape so there's no point asking him (3♥)

 

as for checking to see if partner has akqxx diamonds (4♣), you can't do that in normal methods. if you autosplinter, and partner has a maximum with nothing in clubs and 2 or 3 hearts he'll take us past game.

however, considering the system you play (in case you didn't know yet, benji 2m openings are very poor and played nowhere above club level outside france), the autosplinter should probably be redefined to ask partner for a source of tricks, as you can't have a single suiter not strong enough for a 2m opener that's good enough for slam opposite something like qxx xx akxx xxxx in which case 4♣ would be more sensible. still, the 999 times out of 1000 when partner doesn't oblige with akqxx of diamonds you've massively helped the opponents in how to defend the hand in game so i'd never do it anyway.

[the hog]

My first thought was 4C, my second thought was 4C and my third and final thought is still 4C

[acorn]

I was shown this hand in a teaching session, both hands were shown and when I said what I though N should bid teacher basically said I was resulting! maybe I was but I thought what I suggested was fairly clear so just looking for opinions :)

 

I'll post full hand later.

 

System is Benji Acol: a 2C opening would have shown an 8 playing trick hand. 1NT is old fashioned ACOL non-forcing. Vulnerability unknown, form of scoring MP in a fairly weak field.

 

 

 

[hv=pc=n&n=sa85hakqt863dj86c&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp1np]133|200[/hv]

 

thanks,

 

Eagles

[acorn]

using the 2/1 system this is a tyrust ur pard hand--u have 14 hcpts ans 3 length points -a med hand-u bid 3 h and ur pard takes it from there