Fluffy Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 [hv=pc=n&s=sk6h7dakq95caqj85&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=p1dp1s3h]133|200[/hv] If you double Partner jumps to 4♠ If you bid 4 clubs Partner raises to 5 If you bid 4NT Partner bids 5♣ If you bid 4♥ Partner bids 4NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 X, then 4NT ask keycards, planning to play slam in spades. ahydra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I will bid 4 clubs Partner raises to 5and I will respect partner's sign-off in game Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 X, then 4NT ask keycards, planning to play slam in spades. ahydraYes, the combination of spoilers does tell us to do that. Unfortunately, I wouldn't have doubled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'll just terminate hand description with 4♣. Dbl could work out better, though. If pard raises to 5, I'll just stick to it, on grounds of "if fixed, stay fixed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Yes, the combination of spoilers does tell us to do that. Unfortunately, I wouldn't have doubled. Nothing to do with the other spoilers - I just feel that the hand is too strong for 4C. Three losers! That's enough for a 2C opening for some (most?) people. Now after partner jumps to 4S, given that 3S would not be forcing I'm placing him with at least a moderately-decent hand and a 6-card suit, so we might even have grand on. ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Nothing to do with the other spoilers - I just feel that the hand is too strong for 4C. Three losers! That's enough for a 2C opening for some (most?) people. Now after partner jumps to 4S, given that 3S would not be forcing I'm placing him with at least a moderately-decent hand and a 6-card suit, so we might even have grand on. ahydraIf we Double and partner doesn't jump to 4S, when he previously hasn't even shown 5 of them we won't know what trump should be, let alone how high. The Double, however, seems to have worked out well this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 4c I guess 6c now...pard will never play me for a 3 loser hand. Kind of weird bidding east is a passed hand...west could not overcall 1d and north could not cue 4h after 4c oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I haven't read the spoilers (how does one make spoilers?)I was severely torn between dbl and 5c. I am a bit surprisedto see so many vote for 4c when 5c seems like a much more accurate description of the offensive value of this hand. I might be under the delusion that 5c is actually strongerthan 4c but that tries to make a case that the weaker yet moredistributional hand has to take the large gamble that 5 of aminor is right while 4 of a minor is bid with a stronger handmerely because it might make slam bidding easier. Not sure Ibuy that line of reasoning. I would surely love to compete with4c holding something like x xx AKxxx AQJxx where I need a trumpfit and some minor help to make 5 (and an ace(s) from p). Bidding 5c with this collection seems to be designed for optimists. Dbl Not an easy choice but the honor x in spades gives me just enoughwiggle room to consider playing a spade contract vs insisting onone of my (really) nice minors. I certainly have the extra valuesneeded for this bid though I am somewhat unhappy with having onlya singleton heart. Dbl offers flexibility not only of level of contractbut strain as well while 4/5 clubs pretty much eliminates the spade suit(usually a bad idea). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I know I am getting too old for this forum. Can't we ever make a penalty double anymore? RHO didn't pre-empt in 1st chair....and we're now supposed to assume that on this delayed pre-empt he holds a solid, classic first seat pre-empt? End of preliminary rant. As for what I would do, I think it useful to be able to show a very good playing hand with 10+ cards in the minors, and I have a way to do that: 4♣. If I trust partner, he can show a good raise, with working cards, via 4♥ without implying a heart control. 4♦ would be a preference, 4♠ would be an offer to play, so the only strength raise he has is 4♥, which is logically sort of LTTC. Now, he might choose 5♣ with a perfect minimum...the spade A and the club K and nothing else, but even with that, and 4+ clubs, I think he should make the 4♥ call. So while I might miss a decent or even cold slam, I expect 4♣ to allow us to reach 6 most of the time it is good. I think double, even if takeout, is flawed. It is a 'cook' to know his rebid, and even then it isn't clear that we aren't hanging partner by keycarding. As for 4N immediately, that is keycard where I come from so it is absurd. Even if, for some reason, it were the minors, it would show longer diamonds than clubs, which isn't what we hold. 4♥ is unambiguously spades, especially when double is takeout. Cues of their suit below 3N need not be a raise, but 4♥ absolutely is, imo. Btw, if he passes 4♣, which I don't expect, we haven't yet made that contract let alone game and there is some chance we won't: picture QJxxx Kxx xx xxx, and he could have a worse hand than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Good job mikeh, partner had ♠AQxxxx ♥xx ♦Jx ♣Kxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 It wouldn't have occurred to me to do anything but double 3H. If partner bids 3S then I bid 4C... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 I think double, even if takeout, is flawed. It is a 'cook' to know his rebid, and even then it isn't clear that we aren't hanging partner by keycarding.I disagree, 4♠ is just the rebid I don't want to hear. E.g. if he bids 3♠, I can bid 4♣ over that, and trust partner to pick the right strain 99.83% of the time. If he bids a minor, I can raise (while making one slam try). But if he bids 4♠, I am probably stuck trusting his spades are good enough to play slam. My main problem with bidding 4♣ is that we might be missing 4♠ if partner is weak with 6 spades. We would also bid 4♣ with a 1165 hand much weaker in hcp. What is partner supposed to do with 6(322) and ♠Qxxxxx over 4♣? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Strange players in you country, Fluffy. Not good enough to open with a pre empt but good enough to put your head on the chopping block in a live auction. Anyway, I am bidding 4C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Indded, that's areason why I raised 4♣ to 5♣ instead of trying 4♠. I expected LHO to have 7-4 majors. Instead he had 2722 with ♥KJ and out. 5♣ was a big bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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