I got this one wrong

[CamHenry]

[hv=pc=n&w=s98hj543dcaqj7652&d=n&v=e&b=9&a=1d1n2d3c3ddp]133|200[/hv]

 

Opps play Benji; you are in a second-time partnership and it's undiscussed territory. GBK suggests that partner's double is for penalties; do you sit or pull?

 

Edited: dealer was N, not W, so you're an unpassed hand. I don't think that changes much, but my apologies for the error.

[the hog]

I find it difficult to believe W did not open 3C. Never mind. I pass; partner told me he can beat it. Mind you, no one I play with would expect me to hold this hand.

 

Edited 45 mins later.

Just had a swim and cooled down. It is very hot now in Lao.

OK assuming that the wine waiter passed and I was called back afterwards to bid the rest of the auction, I would bid 3NT now, both at Imps and MPs, but especially the former. However I would only do this because of the vul. I find 3H a poor bid given the strength of my C suit and the weakness of the H. No partner of mine could ever expect me to hold these Cs and pass originally.

[Trinidad]

I would bid 3♥.

 

This is a relatively nice auction for a second time partnership. I have been able to establish a game force, to show a long (6+) club suit and a four card heart suit.

 

Rik

[whereagles]

Seems like an easy 3NT to me. Even if pard doesn't like me pulling, at least he'll have the pleasure of playing the hand :D

 

Ron: beware of crocodiles :)

[CamHenry]

Just checked the hand record and N was dealer, not W - so I hadn't passed that hand in first seat. Glad to know I wasn't entirely comatose!

[Trinidad]

I find 3H a poor bid given the strength of my C suit and the weakness of the H.

Which is why we introduced clubs first and then bid hearts...

 

But you seem to think that when we have a 4-4 heart fit this hand plays better in 3NT than in 4♥. That may be true, but I have my doubts and I will explore the 4-4 fit anyway.

 

Rik

[the hog]

It changes a hell of a lot. I still bid 3NT.

[MrAce]

Which is why we introduced clubs first and then bid hearts...

 

But you seem to think that when we have a 4-4 heart fit this hand plays better in 3NT than in 4♥. That may be true, but I have my doubts and I will explore the 4-4 fit anyway.

 

Rik

 

When pd holds xx ♣, he will have some guessing to do in NT, and wrong guess may turn ugly. ♣ to Q or J will hold i assume then....we may even have issues in spade suit as well. I would not rule out 5♣ quickly even at MP. But i too would start 3♥ for now.

[rhm]

3NT

 

What you should have bid on the previous round already.

I am not interested in a heart contract

Passing the DBL or bidding hearts now shows a lack of judgment

 

Rainer Herrmann

[rhm]

When pd holds xx ♣, he will have some guessing to do in NT, and wrong guess may turn ugly. ♣ to Q or J will hold i assume then....we may even have issues in spade suit as well. I would not rule out 5♣ quickly even at MP. But i too would start 3♥ for now.

Of course 3NT might require a guess in the club suit, but it is odds on that any other game contract is worse.

Not everybody can duck smoothly when holding ♣Kx. (I remember doing so against Chemla in a French ski resort years ago and he banged down the ace dropping my king)

I am also not interested to tell them that a spade lead might be a serious alternative to diamonds.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[ggwhiz]

3nt because the double of 3♦ simply does not have 4 cards in hearts of any quality and the expected waste in diamonds makes 5♣ a huge longshot.

[gszes]

I hate burying 4 card majors so I would not have started

with 3c. I hate burying them so much that after the 1d 1n 2d

start I would have bid 3d (hopefully understood as stayman)

and would settle for 3n only after checking for the heart fit.

 

The 3h bid now should be a hand with the values to compete

with 3c over 2d (QJ xxxx void QJxxxxx) and too weak defensively

to want to play 3d x.

 

Having survived a poor 3c bid the previous round I will now

settle for

 

3N

 

and leave poor p puzzled by the bidding until they see how I

mangled the bidding earlier. For those that play 3c as forcing

(over 2d) with any luck my example hand above will get you to

realize the lost potential of 3c as a weaker but competitive

hand since you have an easy 3n with the stronger club suits

xxx xx xx AQJxxx(x) (assuming I did not open 3c) over the 2d bid.

[Jinksy]

What's GBK?

[Cyberyeti]

I hate burying 4 card majors so I would not have started

with 3c. I hate burying them so much that after the 1d 1n 2d

start I would have bid 3d (hopefully understood as stayman)

and would settle for 3n only after checking for the heart fit.

 

The 3h bid now should be a hand with the values to compete

with 3c over 2d (QJ xxxx void QJxxxxx) and too weak defensively

to want to play 3d x.

 

Having survived a poor 3c bid the previous round I will now

settle for

 

3N

 

and leave poor p puzzled by the bidding until they see how I

mangled the bidding earlier. For those that play 3c as forcing

(over 2d) with any luck my example hand above will get you to

realize the lost potential of 3c as a weaker but competitive

hand since you have an easy 3n with the stronger club suits

xxx xx xx AQJxxx(x) (assuming I did not open 3c) over the 2d bid.

 

Would you not assume Lebensohl here so the weaker hand is a 2N bid ? With the bad hand, you are one forced ruff away from a useless club suit in a heart contract even if you do have a 4-4 fit so it's more important to play it in clubs.

[nige1]

What's GBK?

General

Bridge

Knowledge

A mythical creature, regularly invoked by prevaricators, when flouting full disclosure obligations :)

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&w=s98hj543dcaqj7652&d=n&v=e&b=9&a=1d1n2d3c3ddp]133|200|

Opps play Benji; you are in a second-time partnership and it's undiscussed territory. GBK suggests that partner's double is for penalties; do you sit or pull?

Edited: dealer was N, not W, so you're an unpassed hand. I don't think that changes much, but my apologies for the error. [/hv]

IMO 3N = 10, 3♥ = 8. Seems like partner has a strong ♦ holding. Trust him to guess ♣ (especially if he holds ♣K) :)

e.g. ♠ K x x x ♥ Q x x x ♦ A K J ♣ K x

[CamHenry]

OK, thanks all - as you may have guessed, my concern over communication in 3NT (especially if partner has a doubleton club) led me to bid 5♣. Dummy was about as suitable for 3NT as possible: ♠QJx ♥Qxxx ♦AKQx ♣Kx. Of course we lost the first 4 tricks in 5♣, for a cold bottom. I wanted confirmation that by bid was as ill-thought-out as I originally assessed!

 

I'm glad that 3♥ was also considered a viable option; I thought it was more likely to show a 6-5 pattern than a 7-4 which is why I rejected it.

[the hog]

No surprise at all, is it?

[rhm]

No surprise at all, is it?

Not for me :P

 

Rainer Herrmann

[Cyberyeti]

OK, thanks all - as you may have guessed, my concern over communication in 3NT (especially if partner has a doubleton club) led me to bid 5♣. Dummy was about as suitable for 3NT as possible: ♠QJx ♥Qxxx ♦AKQx ♣Kx. Of course we lost the first 4 tricks in 5♣, for a cold bottom. I wanted confirmation that by bid was as ill-thought-out as I originally assessed!

 

I'm glad that 3♥ was also considered a viable option; I thought it was more likely to show a 6-5 pattern than a 7-4 which is why I rejected it.

 

Surprised it was a cold bottom, would have thought 4♥-2 was a possibility also. The chances of partner having ♦AKQx are pretty small, a lot of the time he'll have 2-3 slower diamond tricks and more cards outside where 5♣ might not look so silly, but I wouldn't jump there just yet, I'd bid 3♥.

[gszes]

Would you not assume Lebensohl here so the weaker hand is a 2N bid ? With the bad hand, you are one forced ruff away from a useless club suit in a heart contract even if you do have a 4-4 fit so it's more important to play it in clubs.

 

There seems to be little/no reason we cannot have a 2n invite===leb is a wonderful

convention but does the 2d bid really change our thinking about the hand so much

we are willing to forgo the natural 2n? if rho had passed would we be using leb

or invitational??? I think that is the problem with assuming leb is on here. The

other problem is that since p has already bid 1n (vs dbl) it increases the

probability that 2n as invitational carries additional weight unless we are going

to assume we cannot have a 3n game with both opps bidding (I hate that idea sigh

though I can see how many would like it since it does seem odds against).

[rhm]

Surprised it was a cold bottom, would have thought 4♥-2 was a possibility also. The chances of partner having ♦AKQx are pretty small, a lot of the time he'll have 2-3 slower diamond tricks and more cards outside where 5♣ might not look so silly, but I wouldn't jump there just yet, I'd bid 3♥.

I do not understand this.

We know partner has a strong notrump with at least one but quite possible two diamond stoppers.

For 3NT to make we only need just the king of clubs in partner's hand and we are not yet down even if not.

Who needs ♦AKQ? Give partner instead of the ace of diamonds a major suit ace and 3NT is still the best contract.

I guess it is possible to construct hands where 3NT is down while 5♣ or 4♥ makes.

But seriously how likely do you consider that?

It requires a parlay.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[Cyberyeti]

I do not understand this.

We know partner has a strong notrump with at least one but quite possible two diamond stoppers.

For 3NT to make we only need just the king of clubs in partner's hand and we are not yet down even if not.

Who needs ♦AKQ? Give partner instead of the ace of diamonds a major suit ace and 3NT is still the best contract.

I guess it is possible to construct hands where 3NT is down while 5♣ or 4♥ makes.

But seriously how likely do you consider that?

It requires a parlay.

 

Rainer Herrmann

 

I just know what we (and a few other people) overcall 1N on and it is far from as shape specific as an opening 1N, a small stiff club is far from impossible, how do you bid a 4441 16 count for example.

[PhilKing]

How do you bid a 4441 16 count for example.

 

I would pass.

[Cyberyeti]

I would pass.

 

OK, there we differ, I'd rather not have the auction come back to me somewhere awkward and feel obliged to act, I'd rather show my 15-17 and a diamond stop.