Light Opening

[sheilafran]

♠AJ10xx

♥Qx

♦A86

♣986

[ggwhiz]

Not a chance.

 

It's a good overcall and a crummy opening and I only push on those with short spades when I'm more likely to be crowded out of the bidding at my next turn.

 

Edit: I don't play precision but since you do my "Not a chance" should read "absolutely"

[neilkaz]

Before I vote, are we to assume that we are playing SAYC or 2/1 or some other system like ACOL where an opening is expected to be worth 12 pts, rather than Precision where we open this 11 count?

[sheilafran]

Playing Precision where opening can be 11 - 15 points

[billw55]

Playing Precision where opening can be 11 - 15 points

Then this isn't a light opening at all, just minimum. And a pretty good minimum at that. IMO failing to open would be a gross violation of system, borderline psyche.

 

By the way, I also open 1♠ in ordinary systems, although I could grudgingly live with pass. But if playing precision, pass is absurd.

[HighLow21]

12 HCP (I count AJT as 6 points), good suit, boss suit. The power of opening 1♠ is that you rob the opponents of the initiative AND several bids.

 

If your partnership requires ultrasound openers, fine. But if you're going to overcall no matter what if 1♠ is available, then you might as well open it. It makes it much harder for the opponents to find their possible heart fit.

[gwnn]

I would always open this, even 2nd, V vs NV. Spades are spades.

[mike777]

♠AJ10xx

♥Qx

♦A86

♣986

 

easy opener if you open light. pard expects this.

 

easy pass if you open sound ala Roth.

 

fwiw I think Rosenberg passes balanced 12 counts.

[ahydra]

This is close - though to be honest I think I would open it, particularly if one of the spade x's is the nine.

 

ahydra

[Cyberyeti]

Playing precision, yes absolutely you open, playing my form of Acol, I have to open 1N or pass, and I'd pass, but it's close, ♥xx, ♣Q98 I'd open, AJ10 is worth >5.

[Zelandakh]

This hand is 26 ZP so is not even a minimum for a truly light opening system (Zars opens spade hands with 25ZP, non-spade hands with 26). Playing Precision certainly open.

[Cthulhu D]

Playing 2/1 I'd open this - I think strongly that not opening this sort of hand is a minus play. Playing precision opening is automatic. You are just so much better off once you've got your hand in the picture, and you even want a spade lead.

 

A better question is something like QTxxx, Qx, Kxx, Axx - I would still open but without the same conviction.

[neilkaz]

Playing Precision where opening can be 11 - 15 points

Extremely easy opening for Precision then as this is a quite decent 11 count. AJTxx is an upgrade. Two aces is an upgrade.Qx is a downgrade. 5332 is unfortunate but if this were 5422 it would meet the "rule of 20".

 

A regular S/A PD expects me to open this hand and knows to not force game with a mediocre 12 count.

 

It is so important to get ♠ into the auction quickly and this is a decent suit as well and you often want PD to lead one. If he bids and then takes a preference to the 5-2 fit, things should be OK as well as the suit is good.

[aguahombre]

Many of us have different standards for a 5cM opening when 5-3-3-2 than we do for a minor-suit opening which is balanced.

 

This is just fine as a Major opening in our 2/1 methods; Responder's invites and game forces are accordingly goosed up a bit.

 

I first read the term "modern paradox" in an ACBL Bulletin article reporting on the Canadian Nationals a few years back. Opening bids got lighter, yet many responders' actions have remained the same.

[monikrazy]

I pass this pretty happily. There's a good chance I get to show my spades anyway, I'd just rather not it be after partner plays me for 3 more points than I have and we are doubled.

 

Playing 2/1

[mikestar13]

1♠ playing Precision, pass playing 2/1. Make ♥Q into ♣Q and I open it in 2/1.

[jgillispie]

Extremely easy opening for Precision then as this is a quite decent 11 count. AJTxx is an upgrade. Two aces is an upgrade.Qx is a downgrade. 5332 is unfortunate but if this were 5422 it would meet the "rule of 20".

 

A regular S/A PD expects me to open this hand and knows to not force game with a mediocre 12 count.

 

It is so important to get ♠ into the auction quickly and this is a decent suit as well and you often want PD to lead one. If he bids and then takes a preference to the 5-2 fit, things should be OK as well as the suit is good.

 

1S regardless of system. We prevent NV 3rd hand from doing some major disruption. Worst case scenario is partner goes GF with a blah 12 count. Then it just becomes a test of declarer play.

[aguahombre]

1S regardless of system. We prevent NV 3rd hand from doing some major disruption. Worst case scenario is partner goes GF with a blah 12 count. Then it just becomes a test of declarer play.

Partners need to stop going g.f. with a blah 12 count or 12 support points.

 

You indicate it doesn't really matter whether we are playing a forcing club system or 2/1; I agree. What matters is the partnership agreement whether major suit openings could be lighter than Mr. Roth would have preferred, and thus our invites and game forces must be a bit stronger to compensate. There is no magic protection in the fact that we are limited on the top end to fifteen.

[MrAce]

Partners need to stop going g.f. with a blah 12 count or 12 support points. .

 

12 hcp making game force is something i had to get use to in USA. Before i moved invitation hands were 11-12 and only decent 10 hcps. It just comes down to same thing i guess. One of them invites lighter other one heavier.

 

The difference is which one affects your opponents. When one opens and other invites, it is very rare that the range you make your invitations will make some sort of effect on opponents. However there is a huge difference between passing and opening regarding "affecting the opponents" It changes the entire nature of the auction for opponents once we open earlier than they do.

 

Note that I am not saying this effect will always work for our benefit.

[gszes]

I am a mostly conservative bidder but a decent

spade suit has always been friendly to me in the

past so I have a tendency to search for reasons to

open the bidding (somehow) when I own a decent suit.

 

I happen to rate this hand as worth 12.75 so this

is not a real problem for me since I would always open

1S no matter the system. I would go so far as to say

I would open this hand pattern and suit quality 1s even

if you turned the heart Q into a small heart if I was

playing precision or any "light" opening bid system.

 

A 1S opening bid has a pretty reasonable amount of

preemption as an asset.

[ggwhiz]

12 hcp making game force is something i had to get use to in USA.

 

Interesting notes here on the style difference if you open this or not.

 

In the 2/1 style that passes this, not only do we game force with 12 but we balance more aggressively too.

 

As long as the openers reverse those trends it's equally effective and necessary playing precision.

[bluecalm]

I don't think it matters if it's Precision or 2/1. People always say that but their reasons are usually not convincing. The problem with opening is that you end up in game opposite 12pc. You end up in game opposite that in both systems as Precision players usually don't have any mechanism allowing them to cater for those 11-12 hands (Meckstroth Rodwell for example don't).

I would open because most people I play with believe it's winning bridge and expect me to. I am not convinced I think it's close with spades as this is one suit difficult to preempt. I think it's style issue, very difficult to judge which style wins long term so maybe it's better to just do what you are more comfortable with.

 

Partners need to stop going g.f. with a blah 12 count or 12 support points.

 

But if you play 15-17 NT you could end up in 26hcp 1NT if it goes 1S - 1N.

It's easy to say "stop GF'ing with 12pc" but about all elite players do just that with some rare exceptions for 12hcp hands with singleton in partners suit. The reason is that there is no way to cater for those 11-12 hands unless you rebuild the whole system to allow it but then you can just as well open 10-15 or 9-15 even.

[aguahombre]

But if you play 15-17 NT you could end up in 26hcp 1NT if it goes 1S - 1N.

It's easy to say "stop GF'ing with 12pc" but about all elite players do just that with some rare exceptions for 12hcp hands with singleton in partners suit. The reason is that there is no way to cater for those 11-12 hands unless you rebuild the whole system to allow it but then you can just as well open 10-15 or 9-15 even.

Things as usual are dependent upon context. 14-12 combos don't stop in 1NT in our world. The 12 count bids a forcing NT, then rebids 2NT to invite game. So, we arrive in game with the 25/26 totals (some 13-11 as well). But if pairs have no way to invite game with balanced responding hands of 11-12 strength, I guess it is a problem for them. Their collateral problem is bouncing to game on 11-12's; but, to each his own.

[mycroft]

Meckstroth-Rodwell are arguably the best players of bad contracts in the world, and have spent their entire career pushing everybody, including world champions around. And they go down a lot - if you're perfect on defence. I'm sure the rest of the Precision players who fit that criteria are quite happy with that style.

 

I don't qualify for the former, and while I like pushing my opponents around, 22-24 point games aren't my speciality. So I do, in fact, have ways to not GF on a random 12.

[jmcilkley]

In 2nd seat it's a pass for me. There are 11 points but that Qx doesn't look worth 2. More importantly it is a 9 loser hand and for me an opening is 7 loser or better.

In 3rd seat after 2 passes i would open it 1s and I would be happy to overcall 1s.

If my partner has an opening hand then we will get to the right contract. If he hasn;t then I'm happy not to be a dubious contract when vulnerable.

 

 

♠AJ10xx

♥Qx

♦A86

♣986