weak NT and minors

[Fluffy]

In my partnership os strong club we have switched to vulneraibility switching NT range.

 

So opening 1♦ nv, its either unbalanced 11-15 or balanced 14-16

 

I am wondering about the merits of the following bids:

 

1♦-1NT

1♦-2♣

1♦-2♦

1♦-3♦

 

 

We used to play inverted minors, but they don't seem to make sense now.

[Gerben42]

In my partnership os strong club we have switched to vulneraibility switching NT range.

 

So opening 1♦ nv, its either unbalanced 11-15 or balanced 14-16

 

I am wondering about the merits of the following bids:

 

1♦-1NT

1♦-2♣

1♦-2♦

1♦-3♦

 

 

We used to play inverted minors, but they don't seem to make sense now.

 

With my Precision partner I don't play inv. minors. Instead, we use a bid as art. GF (for example you can use 2♣ for this and leave 3♣♦ as natural and invitational.

[Fluffy]

But invitational assuming partner will be 11-15 with a short suit or inviting the14-16 balanced?

 

And what should partner do with 14-16 balanced after 1♦-1NT?

[mfa1010]

We have spotted the same problem, if we want to shift to 10-12 NTs nv in our presicion, so 1♦ would become 10-15 unbal 4+♦ or a 13-15NT.

 

I haven't thought it through but my immediate idea is:

 

1♦-1N: This should be passed by the big NT. It makes little sense that the big NT have to go on the 2-level every time.

 

1♦-2N: INV opposite 14-16. The diamond hand can bid 3m to get out.

 

1♦-3m: INV long suit opposite 14-16.

 

1♦-2m: GF opposite 14-16 (we use 2♥ to show the bal hand over 2m). 2m followed by 2N or 3m is only INV opposite the diamond hand.

[Fluffy]

Thank you michael, this makes good sense, 1♦ could once in a while be 4-1M with 3♦ nad 5♣ but I think singing off in 3♣ would be easy then.

[rbforster]

I play that

 

1♦-1N is non-invitational values; opener can bid with shape but not balanced strength

1♦-2N is a sound invitation (13-14), most useful since we open lighter than 11 sometimes

1♦-2♣ is 4+ clubs, either natural unbalanced clubs (invitiational+), or balanced with a light invite (10-12)

1♦-2♦ is still inverted, 4+ diamonds invitational with no 4M, could be balanced with 3343 and the light invite range

 

After 1♦-2♣, 2♦ shows minimum values (bottom 1/3 of range, say 10-11), and is non-forcing opposite the balanced club hand.

[whereagles]

In my partnership os strong club we have switched to vulneraibility switching NT range.

So opening 1♦ nv, its either unbalanced 11-15 or balanced 14-16

 

1♦-1NT

1♦-2♣

1♦-2♦

1♦-3♦

 

We used to play inverted minors, but they don't seem to make sense now.

 

You can still play them if you want, with a slight tweak: you can bid 1♦-2♦ with a mere 3-card support. That allows you to bid IM on, say,

 

xxx

Axx

Kxx

KQxx

 

a hand you wouldn't want to bid 2NT and see pard raise to 3NT on an unbalanced 14-15 with major suit singleton :)

 

The bids you mention could keep their usual meaning. Here's a possible structure after IM:

 

1♦ 2♦

2M/3♣ = unbalanced, stopper, singleton somewhere. (Could be GF or not, you pick.)

2NT = 14-16 (GF).

3♦ = unbalanced min, 5 cards. Responder passes or carries on accordingly.

3M = splinter, unbalanced max. (If you make 1♦-2♦-2M GF, this could be a void splinter.)

[Zelandakh]

I play that

1♦-2♣ is 4+ clubs, either natural unbalanced clubs (invitiational+), or balanced with a light invite (10-12)

After 1♦-2♣, 2♦ shows minimum values (bottom 1/3 of range, say 10-11), and is non-forcing opposite the balanced club hand.

What do you do with 4=4=4=1 hands? Are you really happy playing for 8 tricks in your 4-2 diamond fit, even with the majority of the hcp? And with extras this has the potential to get even messier.

[helene_t]

If you want to play the 1NT response as "to play opposite 14-16 bal" then what about playing 2♦ as 9-12 with 3+ diamonds? I admit that it creates a problem with the strong hands with diamonds, but some of those can either splinter or blast 3NT. The ramaining will have to start with 2♣.

 

The advantage is that you stay low when opener is 10-12 with 4441 or (34)51.

[rbforster]

What do you do with 4=4=4=1 hands? Are you really happy playing for 8 tricks in your 4-2 diamond fit, even with the majority of the hcp? And with extras this has the potential to get even messier.

You can't have extras on either side or either opener wouldn't bid 2D or responder would bid again. If you've got a 10-11 HCP 4441 opener bidding 1♦, the only way to get to 2♦ in a 4-2 fit is when responder has a balanced 10-12 HCP and exactly 3325 shape (no 4M, not 6+C). On those hands, there is no fit for either side but you have a slight majority of the points. For any other unbalanced hand by opener, he will have either 5+D or 4+C (or both) which guarantee a fit in 3C (min openers can also raise 2C to 3C with 4+) or at least a 5-2 fit in 2D. I was aware of this one annoying hand type (3325 bal, weak invite) when designing my methods, and considered having it respond 1H instead. That said, it's very rare and even more rare that it's actually a problem.

 

Against that drawback, we play 1N a lot of times other people invited to 2N and stopped there.