dickiegera Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 [hv=d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1cp1hp2hp4c]133|100[/hv] WHAT IS 4 CLUBS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevahound Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Is there any reason it wouldn't be a splinter? Helping opener sign off with KJTx(x) of clubs, and to get excited with xxx(x) of clubs? Anything else would (absent prior agreement) greatly surprise me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 [hv=d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1cp1hp2hp4c]133|100[/hv] WHAT IS 4 CLUBS?♣ Splinter for ♥ as trump; slam try . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 The only other possible meaning is a slam try with good cards concentrated in hearts and clubs, xx, AKQxxx, xx, AKx or similar, no available splinter so 2524 or 2623. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevahound Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 The only other possible meaning is a slam try with good cards concentrated in hearts and clubs, xx, AKQxxx, xx, AKx or similar, no available splinter so 2524 or 2623. I would think with hearts and clubs concentrations you'd continue with 3♣ (a game try until proven otherwise); then when you convert it to a slam try you'll have shown those concentrations. I'm not great with "what's standard" questions, but I thought it was fairly standard that without shortness but with a slam try you bid where you live, and your game try becomes a slam try with subsequent calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 WHAT IS 4 CLUBS? It is a crystal clear GERBER ! http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 [hv=d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1cp1hp2hp4c]133|100|WHAT IS 4 CLUBS?[/hv] Depends on agreement but IMO, probably...Not natural ♣.Not a cue-bid (You could mark-time with 3♣ and reveal slam aspirations later).Gerber -- RKC Gerber? I quite like Mr Ace's suggestion - even if he doesn't :)Splinter - Trevahound's suggestion is the most likely without discussion.Exclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickiegera Posted February 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Depends on agreement but IMO, probably...Not natural ♣.Not a cue-bid (You could mark-time with 3♣ and reveal slam aspirations later).Gerber -- Roman key-card Gerber? I quite like Mr Ace's suggestion - even if he doesn't :)Splinter - Trevahound's suggestion is the most likely without discussion.Exclusion. I have always played that one does not splinter in partners suit and Gerber is a jump over a NT bid. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I have always played that one does not splinter in partners suit andGerber is a jump over a NT bid. Thank you OK, Fair enough :) But you did ask what 4♣ might mean :) After ♥ have been supported, a 4♣ splinter seems a reasonable agreement -- especially playing 2/1 -- when partner's 1♣ may have shown his worst suit e.g. ♠ A Q x ♥ K Q x x ♦ Q x x ♣ x x x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I would think with hearts and clubs concentrations you'd continue with 3♣ (a game try until proven otherwise); then when you convert it to a slam try you'll have shown those concentrations. I'm not great with "what's standard" questions, but I thought it was fairly standard that without shortness but with a slam try you bid where you live, and your game try becomes a slam try with subsequent calls. What's standard is not to cue a shortage in partner's suit, and that was the only other meaning I could think of. 3♣ is not even forcing for everybody round here, although I guess it is in the US (it makes a lot more sense for it to be forcing opposite a short club, here it just says I want to play in the 4-4 or better club fit rather than the potential 4-3 heart fit for some people). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 The only other possible meaning is a slam try with good cards concentrated in hearts and clubs, xx, AKQxxx, xx, AKx or similar, no available splinter so 2524 or 2623.This "Picture bid" makes a lot more sense than splintering partner's suit. With the above example, sure, we could bid 3 forcing clubs and then show slam interest later, but I don't see how that will accomplish anything. This hand needs to describe and let partner make the moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcilkley Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I would hope noone seriously thinks it would be Gerber! Nor can I see the point of a splinter bid in partner's suit (although the 1c opening might not show clubs, I guess. 3c might well be a trial bid asking for help in clubs for game (quite possible if playing 5 card majors) I would take it as a cue bid in clubs with slam interest and denying first round control of spades. [hv=d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1cp1hp2hp4c]133|100[/hv] WHAT IS 4 CLUBS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I would hope noone seriously thinks it would be Gerber! There might be someone, but not Timo. Gerber is a frequent subject of humor on these fora... deservedly --- even some who actually use Gerber in certain situations don't advertise on BBF. And many of us do not use the emoticons with each attempt at humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Molyb Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 If undiscussed with a strong partner, probably the picture bid.If undiscussed with a weaker partner, splinter for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Molyb Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 posting straight from BBO makes me double-post :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granguru Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 There are 3 cases not considered up to now, and first is that it is a slam try without ♦ control. You want to bid just under the step you want to hear and not other option to partner. The second is that partnership uses 6 RKCB. Then after both suit have been immediately supported 4NT asks 6 KCB, including both rounded Qsto check with certainty if there is a grand slam or just 12 tricks.A typical hand ♠Ax ♥Qxxxx ♦Axx ♣KQx vs some ♥AKxx ♣Axxxx and Kx xx or ♠xxx ♦x. Surely, without any agreement, the most common idea between non experts is that it is a non-standard SPL bid. Gerber is used always after a NT bid by partner so it is not to be considered. Among top experts, specially those who use 4-level minor suit agreements is directly RKCB(6). Answers are 14, 30 (or inverted) 25, 2+1Q, 2+2Q. If first or second step answer, then first no-suit asks number of Qs. Kindly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 If undiscussed with a strong partner, probably the picture bid.If undiscussed with a weaker partner, splinter for sure. I gotta be the weaker partner :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump Echo Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 If my regular partner bid this, I would see it as a cue bid. With the bid, my partner is telling me we have the strength for a slam in ♥ if I have max values. If my partner simply bid 3 ♣ or 3 ♥, inviting game in ♥, and I followed with 4 ♥, I would have missed the opportunity to show my ♦ Ace below game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arepo24 Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 I agree with Aguahombre. To me it is a picture bid -- nothing more, nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Among top experts, specially those who use 4-level minor suit agreements is directly RKCB(6). Answers are 14, 30 (or inverted) 25, 2+1Q, 2+2Q. If first or second step answer, then first no-suit asks number of Qs. Kindly That's a pretty bold claim. Do you have any proof? FWIW I have evidence from "the database" to the contrary. Lauria/Versace, Meckstroth/Rodwell and Helgemo/Helness, for example, play the sequence as a splinter, but they are all fish. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 When did three small in a minor become a suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 When did three small in a minor become a suit?Well, I suspect some time back when 5cM openings began. The ACBL regs seem to think 3cm or 4cM is a suit as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 When did three small in a minor become a suit?A major suit is 4+ cards but can be shaded to 3.A diamond suit is 3+ cards but can be shaded to 2.A club suit is 2+ cards but might be anything. Have you not suggested making a GF 2♣ response before now with a void "suit" before Ken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 A major suit is 4+ cards but can be shaded to 3.A diamond suit is 3+ cards but can be shaded to 2.A club suit is 2+ cards but might be anything. Have you not suggested making a GF 2♣ response before now with a void "suit" before Ken? Yes, I know. But the discussion about not splintering in partner's "suit" had me laughing. For THOSE purposes, I would hardly consider a minor opening to be based upon the kind of "suit" worthy of respecting enough to not splinter opposite, especially after a bid and raise. While 1♣-P-1♥-P-1♠-P-4♣ might be debatable, 1♣-P-major-P-raisemajor-P-4♣ seems rather silly to protect as needed to support clubs or otherwise different from a diamond splinter in this sequence. Three small is a great holding opposite a splinter, and three small is relatively likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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