Bidding Cold Slams

[broze]

[hv=pc=n&s=skthak73dakq75ck4&n=saqj2ht9dj84ca653]133|200[/hv]

 

EDIT: Sorry, South was dealer.

[whereagles]

I would open 2♣. Should be easy to get to 6 after that, but 7 might be a problem.

 

The alternative route:

 

1♦ 1♠

2♥ 3♦

4NT 5♥

5NT ??

 

3♦ = forcing (2NT + diamonds would be NF)

5NT = any extras for the bidding?

 

Now it kind of depends on North.. if inspired, he'll bid 7. Otherwise just 6.

[Endymion77]

Tough one. I would treat the South hand as 23-24 balanced and would open 2♣ and rebid 2NT but North can't see 13 tricks.

[Fluffy]

I need a dealer for natural bidding.

 

With my strong club system regardless of dealer I find out about ♠J at 5NT, but can't ask for ♦J

[Cyberyeti]

Dealer ?

 

With N as dealer:

 

1N(12-14)-2♣

2♠-4♦(4♥, 5+♦, slam try)

4♥(kickback ♦)-4♠(0/3)

4N (Q?)-5♣(yes +K♣)

5♦(rolling, partner will only pass with 0)-5♥

5N (still interested in grand, but no K♠/K♣)-6♠(confident about 6N, got K♠)

7N

 

With S as dealer:

 

1♦-1♠

2N (GF unbal)-3♣(semi forced, always bid this without massive distribution)

3♥(usually big 6-4, occasionally massive 5-4)-4♦

4♥(kickback)-5♣(2 without)

5♥(I have K/Q ♥, bid 7 with the other)-5N (no, I have no black K, but still interested in grand)

6♣(K)-6♦

6♥(K not Q)-6♠(Q, K denied earlier, bid 7 with K)

7♦-7N (OK so you have ♠K, ♥AKxx, ♦AKQxx, ♣K, 4+2+5+2 = 13)

[helene_t]

2♣-2♦* positive

2NT-5NT

7NT

 

I am probably biased by seeing the hands - in practice, either S or N would take a more conservative view and we would finish in 6.

[Zelandakh]

The problem here seems to be locating North's jacks if South is in control, or the 5th diamond and good controls if North. QP methods probably manage this with ease, particularly those that also incorporate reverse relays, but it is more difficult for me.

 

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any

... - 2♥ = 4-5 spades, 2-3 hearts, bal, GF

2♠ = relay, usually 18+

... - 3♥ = 4234

3♠ = relay

... - 4♥ = extras, 4 controls

4♠ = relay

... - 5♦ = ♠+♣ controls, no ♦ control

5♥ = relay

... - 5♠ = no ♥ control

5NT = relay

... - 6♦ = 2 (or 3) of top 3 spades, 1 of top 3 clubs

7♦ (♠J not locaated)

 

I could also break relays after 3♥ and switch to key card asks in diamonds but finding those knaves is still going to be a problem. This might have been a good deal to include in our strong club bidding series.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

[hv=pc=n&s=skthak73dakq75ck4&n=saqj2ht9dj84ca653]133|200[/hv]

 

EDIT: Sorry, South was dealer.

My slam would be based on a "bean count " after a standard 2C opening :

2C - 2D! ( waiting, but positive )

2NT ( 22-24 ) - 3C ( regular Stayman )

3H - 3S

3NT - 6NT

[Antrax]

Don, what is 3♠ in your auction?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Don, what is 3♠ in your auction?

Responder's 3S is showing 4 cards... since Opener could also have 4 cards ♠ and a ♠ slam might be a better place to play .

 

There may be a different way of handling this.... but you don't want to rebid 3NT ( which would also show 4 cards ♠ ) and have Opener pass .

[Lord Molyb]

Precision:

1♣ - 1NT

2♦ - 3♣

3♥ - 3NT

4♥ - 4♠

7♦

 

1♣ = 15+

1NT = 8-13 balanced

2♦ = natural

3♣ = support, 4 controls

3♥ = asks

3NT = third round control in ♥

4♥ = asks

4♠ = doubleton heart

 

If I wanted to get more scientific, it could go

 

1♣ - 1NT

2♦ - 3♣

3♠ - 4♠

5♥ - 5NT

6♥ - 6♠

7♦

 

1♣ = 15+

1NT = 8-13 balanced

2♦ = natural

3♣ = support, 4 controls

3♠ = asks

4♠ = AK or AQ of ♠

5♥ = asks

5NT = 3rd round control

6♥ = asks

6♠ = doubleton heart

7♦ = could be only 12 tricks in NT although it might be worth trying at matchpoints

[Fluffy]

on natural south's hand has to be evalued between 23 and 24 HCP, for me this matters as I have a range of 24+ that would prompt north directly into grand slam.

 

if evalued as 22-23 only I think north will end up in 6NT after finding there is no likely fit. So pretty much what helene said.

[Antrax]

Responder's 3S is showing 4 cards... since Opener could also have 4 cards ♠ and a ♠ slam might be a better place to play .

 

There may be a different way of handling this.... but you don't want to rebid 3NT ( which would also show 4 cards ♠ ) and have Opener pass .

I agree with the second sentence, which is why my auction continues 5NT after 3♥. However, if 3♠ is natural for you, what is responder's forcing heart raise?

[the hog]

Easy playing a relay system and very difficult playing natural. I would get to 6 of course, but probably not 7.

[hmw]

I play a natural 5-card major system, but show number of controls after a 2-club opening, so:

 

2C - 2UT(4 controls, A=2, K=1)

3D - 4D

4UT (RKC 1430) - 5H

5UT (extras?)- 6SP

7UT

 

I think it is better here to show diamond support immediately after dealer's 3D, rather than to show the spade suit as a possible alternative trump suit, which might leave dealer with the problem of what to bid next.

 

4UT might seem unnecessary, since dealer already knows how many aces partner has, but I'm not sure how otherwise to ask for extras, and here 4UT followed by 5UT does the job. For me, 5UT direct after partner's 4D would ask parter to bid 6D/7D according to how many diamond top honours he holds.

 

After 5UT, I think it's best that partner now shows the spades, rather than bid 7D. Dealer then should have sufficient information to bid an inspired 7UT, or maybe I'm also influenced by seeing all the cards!.

[Cyberyeti]

I play a natural 5-card major system, but show number of controls after a 2-club opening, so:

 

2C - 2UT(4 controls, A=2, K=1)

3D - 4D

4UT (RKC 1430) - 5H

5UT (extras?)- 6SP

7UT

 

I think it is better here to show diamond support immediately after dealer's 3D, rather than to show the spade suit as a possible alternative trump suit, which might leave dealer with the problem of what to bid next.

 

4UT might seem unnecessary, since dealer already knows how many aces partner has, but I'm not sure how otherwise to ask for extras, and here 4UT followed by 5UT does the job. For me, 5UT direct after partner's 4D would ask parter to bid 6D/7D according to how many diamond top honours he holds.

 

After 5UT, I think it's best that partner now shows the spades, rather than bid 7D. Dealer then should have sufficient information to bid an inspired 7UT, or maybe I'm also influenced by seeing all the cards!.

 

How do you know the spade extras are QJ rather than just Q ? This is important as Kx-AQxx doesn't want to bid 7N, KJ-AQxx does, Kx-AQJx does.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I agree with the second sentence, which is why my auction continues 5NT after 3♥. However, if 3♠ is natural for you, what is responder's forcing heart raise?

Regarding my posts # 8 and # 10..... perhaps 3S should be an "either/or" ...

... that is, either 4 cards ♠ OR a cuebid for ♥ as trump.

 

-- If Opener does NOT have 4 cards ♠, he then bids 3NT .

 

-- If Opener HAS 4 cards ♠, he then bids an advance cue of 4C or 4D .

[aguahombre]

Whereagles/Cyber:

 

Have you guys published your Forcing Diamond system?

[Cyberyeti]

Whereagles/Cyber:

 

Have you guys published your Forcing Diamond system?

 

We tend to respond pretty light, particularly when we hold a major suit. Yes if partner has ♥ Qxxxx and out we might miss game, but somebody will probably bid spades to save us.

 

It's actually very rare these days to be passed out in 1♦ where you want to be in game, people should pass it out more but they don't.

[masse24]

We miss the Grand

 

2♣ - 2♦

2N - 3♣

3♦ - 3♥

3N - 6NT

 

 

 

2♦ = GF, waiting

2N = 22-24

3♣ = Puppet

3♦ = No 5Maj, but 1 or 2 4Maj

3♥ = ♠

3N = No 4 card ♠

6N = Let's try this

 

 

Yes...still playing Puppet over 2NT. Shoot me. ;)

[Zelandakh]

2♣ - 2♦

2N - 3♣

3♦ - 3♥

3N - 6NT

What would 4♣ and 4♥ be for you over 3NT? In many Puppet schemes you can use one or both of these (and 4♦/4♠ for hands with diamonds) to investigate a minor fit before committing to 6NT.

[Winstonm]

Easy playing a relay system and very difficult playing natural. I would get to 6 of course, but probably not 7.

Yes, I think seven requires a relay system.

[Jinksy]

Gerben's version of Fantunes 1D with modified keycard approach:

 

1♦* 1♠

1N** 2♣***

2♥ 3♦

3♠ 4♣

4♥**** 4♠

4N***** 5♦ ******

5♥ 5♠

6♣******* 7N

 

* F1, unbalanced (5+♦ unless 4441 or 1444)

** Pretty much any 19+

*** Pretty much any GF

**** normal cue, but also showing 1 or 3 KCs

***** partner could conceivably have 1

****** Shows QT

******* Denies a 6th ♦, otherwise normal cue

[Trump Echo]

Here is how my partner and I would bid this:

 

South opens 2 ♣, intending to bid the Diamonds.

 

North responds 3 NT.

 

South considers slam in NT and sees 6 NT easily. But he also sees a possible grand slam in ♦. His hand has more value with a fit in ♦. So he proceeds with his plan and shows his ♦. He bids 4 ♦.

 

North has a fit in ♦. He can see the slam in ♦, but he can also see the possibility of a grand slam in ♦. He considers Blackwood, but he has a worthless doubleton, so he raises the ♦, knowing partner will not pass. He bids 5 ♦.

 

South sees the possibility of a grand slam in ♦. Blasting to 7 would be easy but reckless. There is no rush. He bids 5 ♥, showing that Ace.

 

North's worries with his worthless doubleton are resolved. He can see the grand slam possibilities, but he has no Kings at all. So he bides his time with a bid of 5 ♠, showing that Ace.

 

South sees 3 Aces. Does North have the ♣ Ace? He cannot be sure. He knows it's clear to both partners that they are looking at 7 ♦, so he bids 6 ♦, indirectly asking about the only suit that hasn't been discussed - the ♣.

 

North has the ♣ Ace. He bids 7 ♦.

 

South sees solidity everywhere. He can see four Aces and four Kings. It's likely the ♦ will run for five tricks. He bids 7 NT.

 

The key is the super-positive first response by North which locked up the minor slam and allowed room to investigate 7.

[Antrax]

3NT looks like it might take up a lot of bidding room after a 2♣ opening. How do you continue if opener has an unbalanced hand playable in two strains?