VixTD Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Teams-of-eight, scored as the sum of the IMPs from two teams-of-four. [hv=pc=n&s=sq9873hqda9cj9874&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1hp1sp2sp]133|200[/hv]You're playing Acol, 12-14 NT, four-card majors. What do you bid now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles123 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 4♠ WTP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jallerton Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Do we know partner's style of raising here? How often would he raise to 2♠ with 3-card support ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMoe Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 2N to ask trump length, shape and strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMoe Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 2N to ask trump length, shape and strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endymion77 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 4♠ at teams, we have 7 losers against an opening hand and a good fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Wow you guys are aggressive! And if the 2NT gadget was available I am sure the OP would have mentioned it. Assuming 2♠ is quite likely to be a 3 card raise, 3♣ is plenty for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixTD Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Do we know partner's style of raising here? How often would he raise to 2♠ with 3-card support ?Yes, partner could easily have only three spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 ah OK I change my vote then, 3♠ is plenty. 3♣ if it shows specifically a long weak suit, but if it just shows a long suit of unspecified strength I won't bid 3♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 If partner could have a 12-14 3=5(32) then I would bid 3♠. If he can't (i.e. if balanced he has 15, if he has 12 he will be unbalanced, likely 3=5=4=1) I think this indeed is a WTP 4♠ at IMPs. Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'm certainly not passing, which I suspect is the problem. Bidding 3♣ has both plus and minus points, partner will overvalue some club holdings, but will correctly downvalue Q♦. Rik asks a good question, do they open 1N 3532 ? 2N I suspect for a lot of people just suggests only 4 spades in a balanced ish hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixTD Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 If partner could have a 12-14 3=5(32) then I would bid 3♠. If he can't (i.e. if balanced he has 15, if he has 12 he will be unbalanced, likely 3=5=4=1) I think this indeed is a WTP 4♠ at IMPs.RikPartner would be expected to open 1NT with almost all 3=5(32) hands with 12-14 hcp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Partner would be expected to open 1NT with almost all 3=5(32) hands with 12-14 hcp.That makes it more likely that partner is unbalanced, and it is important to have an agreement what 2NT means here. I play it as an unspecified short-suit game-try, including short hearts. A similar but better hand, in my opinion, AQT9x x Tx JTxxx, passed in the Tollemache final on an identical auction, and a cold game was missed. I think 4S is too much however. As Goldilocks might say, something in between Pass and 4S is just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 4♠ is a massive overbid, KJ10x, KJ10xx, Jx, Qx is a hand I'd certainly open and I think most Acol players would, you won't make 3 opposite that. This leaves 3♠ or 3♣ and no strong preference between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I like 3♣ as a long suit try in that partner can volley with 3 of either red suit to show interest and bid where they live even without club help and I will bid game over any of those. My partner knows it's imps and NEVER bids 3♠ over an auction like this without a ghastly hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixTD Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 This hand was played in an inter-county teams-of-eight match last week. Only six out of twelve tables reached game. The majority seem to think my recommended jump to 4♠ is too much, and would rather make a game try. Should North then bid game? [hv=pc=n&s=sq9873hqda9cj9874&n=skt54hakt84dq63ct&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1hp1sp2sp3cp]266|200[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yes, North has a maximum and covers for all but one of the advertised club losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcilkley Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 This is a 7 loser hand, partner has had opened and supported spades at the lowest level possible so I'm thinking also 7 losers so I'm going to bid game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 The majority seem to think my recommended jump to 4♠ is too much, and would rather make a game try. Should North then bid game? Yes, of course. Not only bid game but also make a descriptive bid incase pd is upto more than just game. N has the maximum for his previous 2♠ bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Before I vote, I need to ask what 3♠ means to you here and if it is a game try, how does it differ from 3♣? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixTD Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Before I vote, I need to ask what 3♠ means to you here and if it is a game try, how does it differ from 3♣?It's not a game try to me, but presumably it is to some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 It's not a game try to me, but presumably it is to some.OK then I bid 3♣. I don't think this is good enough to blast to game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixTD Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yes, of course. Not only bid game but also make a descriptive bid incase pd is upto more than just game. N has the maximum for his previous 2♠ bid.I argued that North should accept a game-try from South, so I don't disagree with you, but how do you judge North as "maximum for his previous 2♠ bid"? In terms of high card points he's pretty close to minimum. He has about six losers (count Qxx as 1.5 2.5, subtract 0.5 for the good controls), he's also got a singleton in the suit where partner is looking for help, so I'd want to be in game, but the point-counters might sign off in 3♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Point counters also count points for distribution. A single raise is traditionally up to 16. This hand has 12 and adding 3 for a singleton brings it to 15. Add to that the good suit textures and hard values (AKT8x, KTxx) and the fact that the singleton is working (opposite partner's club losers) and accepting a 3♣ HSGT is clear. I would argue it the other way - bean counters will always accept with this regardless of which invite they get whereas a HSGT in diamonds might persuade another player not to accept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VixTD Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Point counters also count points for distribution. A single raise is traditionally up to 16. This hand has 12 and adding 3 for a singleton brings it to 15. Add to that the good suit textures and hard values (AKT8x, KTxx) and the fact that the singleton is working (opposite partner's club losers) and accepting a 3♣ HSGT is clear. I would argue it the other way - bean counters will always accept with this regardless of which invite they get whereas a HSGT in diamonds might persuade another player not to accept.I agree, I don't think anyone who's progressed beyond beginners' classes would look at this and think "what a miserable twelve-count", but I'm trying to pin down how people evaluate it (and the South hand). I'm trying to start a discussion on our county website to help our teams think about how they should have bid this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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