Incomprehensible sport

[Vampyr]

Curling. WTF?

[sailoranch]

Curling. WTF?

 

Curlers probably think the same thing about bridge.

[chasetb]

Because of school and work, I haven't been able to play at the local club in quite some time. Thursday, I was able to make it and play. I had forgotten how bad the standard was, and some boards were fouled up because a table didn't check to make sure they had the correct boards.

 

Bridge, WTF?

[32519]

Nah, it must be American grid-iron. These weenies play with crash helmuts and all sorts of body padding.

[gwnn]

I had the same feeling but then Sir Attenborough explained it: http://digg.com/video/sir-david-attenboroughs-describes-olympic-curling

[Cyberyeti]

I don't see curling as any more inexplicable than bowls, just fixed target rather than jack.

[Fluffy]

I saw the topic title and said... I hope she is not talking about curling...

 

I don't really see the problem with curling, its a very easy to understand sport.

 

In Spain we have our own version called Petanca, mainly practiced by retired people on the parks (it is played on sand and you only throw, not brush). On the last decade as most sports technology is jumping in and the balls are no longer round and leather is no longer in fashion.

[ggwhiz]

They held the National Championships here a few years back and it's the same as bridge. The bigger the event, the better the after-match parties.

 

They could use a goalie though.

[Winstonm]

Curling was invented so Fins could expand their ketchup empire by selling to a new hotdog stand market.

[blackshoe]

What I don't get is why laying down on a board and sliding down a ramp is an Olympic Sport.

[Vampyr]

I had the same feeling but then Sir Attenborough explained it: http://digg.com/video/sir-david-attenboroughs-describes-olympic-curling

 

Love it.

[Bbradley62]

To me, both curling and "laying down on a board and sliding down a ramp" are more sports than figure skating is. No event in which the winner is determined by a panel of judges who declare "who did best" should be allowed, especially if "artistic impression" counts for points. Yes, that means no figure skating, trick-based skiing or snowboarding, diving, gymnastics, rhythmic gymnastics, synchronized swimming, etc. Any contest in which you see who goes faster or farther or wins a game based on clearly-defined rules is better.

[1eyedjack]

At least it doesn't require a panel of judges of dubious impartiality to decide the outcome based on "artistic merit".

[edit - same point as bbradley62 I see]

[Vampyr]

At least it doesn't require a panel of judges of dubious impartiality to decide the outcome based on "artistic merit".

 

True, but while I am watching it I can't help thinking Why????

[32519]

How about the stupidity of fox-hunting being declared a sport? When does the fox win? Or how does the fox win? And when it does win, who crowns it?

[Vampyr]

How about the stupidity of fox-hunting being declared a sport? When does the fox win? Or how does the fox win? And when it does win, who crowns it?

 

Has fox hunting really been declared a sport? Where?

[1eyedjack]

Has fox hunting really been declared a sport? Where?

 

It was one of the three original "field" sports - hunting, shooting and fishing.

"I have heard that there is good sport to be had in Buttermere"

 

But I don't think it was ever "declared" a sport. It just was.

 

Never made it to the olympics.

Difficulty in defining a winner (except perhaps with fishing) may be influential.

[Antrax]

At least it doesn't require a panel of judges of dubious impartiality to decide the outcome based on "artistic merit".

You do realize TDs also make what would appear to an outsider to be deciding an outcome based on some unquantifiable merit, right?

[1eyedjack]

You do realize TDs also make what would appear to an outsider to be deciding an outcome based on some unquantifiable merit, right?

I have never argued that Bridge should be declared a sport, let alone an olympic one, nor more deserving of such status than synchronized swimming.

But since you raise the issue, the two can be distinguished.

The delivering of a subjective judgement of a TD in Bridge is an act of last resort in an attempt to restore equity after a breach in regulations. There is no compulsion to breach the regulations in order to invoke such a ruling, and most hands proceed to their conclusion without. In synchronized swimming the contestants can perform with the highest adherence to the regulations and yet a result is not achievable without that judgement.

In short, there is a distinction between a referee restoring order as best he can on the one hand, and on the other, an event in which judgement is required to determine the outcome as an integral feature of the game.

[Vampyr]

It was one of the three original "field" sports - hunting, shooting and fishing.

"I have heard that there is good sport to be had in Buttermere"

 

But I don't think it was ever "declared" a sport. It just was.

 

Never made it to the olympics.

Difficulty in defining a winner (except perhaps with fishing) may be influential.

 

Yes, I would have called it "sport" in the way you use it above, and nearly did elaborate to that effect. But what 325 said was, of course, very different, so I responded only to that.

[Trinidad]

You do realize TDs also make what would appear to an outsider to be deciding an outcome based on some unquantifiable merit, right?

That is entirely different. A TD is a referee. All sports at the olympics have referees: to get the contestants started, to time their races, to measure distances, to keep score or to see to it that the rules are followed. The fact that referees are only human is unfortunate but inevitable.

 

We were dealing with judges. Bridge doesn't have judges, but -to make that clear to you- let's imagine that bridge would have judges and develop a sport, based on bridge with the following characteristics:

 

50% of your score from the MPs you won, 25% based on the technique that you used to make your contract (a squeeze scores higher than a throw-in, which is obviously better than a finesse. Bonus points are awarded for scoring the beer card) and 25% for your presentation at the table: What you wear, how you sorted your cards, how neatly you fan the cards, how you arranged the tricks won and lost and whether your demeanor presentation at the table matches well with that of your partner.

 

This is pretty much how e.g. ski jumping works.

 

We could go a little further and not count those MPs at all. Then we are at synchronized swimming, gymnastics, and figure skating.

 

Rik

[helene_t]

curling is my favourite spectator sport

[sailoranch]

Boxing (and several other combat "contests") are clearly not sports.

 

Also, it's not like we've never seen a football (soccer) match determined by a referee's penalty decision. Or a basketball game determined by a foul decision, or a baseball game determined by an umpire's inconsistent strike zone, or an NFL game decided by pass interference, etc. These are all, at least in practice, subjective judgments that have a huge influence on the outcome.

 

I'm also wary of laying down criteria that give figure skating and gymnastics a lesser claim to being sports than competitive eating and beer pong.

 

And if the issue is the legitimacy of determining winners and losers based on subjective scoring, why shouldn't we declare things like debating, chili cook-offs, Iron Chef, and the World Livestock Auctioneering Championship not to be valid as contests at all?

 

If the issue is the prospect of corruption, that seems to be a common problem with governance or sports subculture that isn't limited to subjectively scored sports. (case study: Tour de France)

[1eyedjack]

The question in point does have some financial significance to Bridge, at least here in the UK (and, I suppose, elsewhere in Europe that is under the thumb of Brussels).

 

H M Revenue and Customs in their lordly wisdom published a list of what, in their view, comprised a "sport". The point is of relevance because it affects an entity's obligation to register for VAT and the manner in which it computes and accounts for said VAT on its income and recover VAT incurred on its expenses. Entities engaged in sporting activities have some privileges in this regard.

 

There are some borderline cases and some perhaps surprising decisions in those borderline case. For example, darts is a sport, as is the flying of model aeroplanes. Bridge is not, or at least has not been until recently, but there may have been some changes since a tribunal case a year or so ago. Bit out of touch in that field.

 

To you, I, and the man on the Clapham Omnibus, the common feature which we regard as defining sport is the competitive element. But HMRC have always drawn the line that it requires some physical effort. Thus, projecting a dart from an oche with sufficient force that it should arrive at a dartboard counts as "physical". Presumably, when flying a model aeroplane, you have to take some effort to move that joystick with your thumbs, although personally I think that it is stretching a point. Maybe it is the fresh air that tips it.

 

Gambling falls within entirely separate rules, which complicates matters somewhat with the Bridge fraternity, what with Bridge having the capacity for a gambling element as well as a tournament element.

[barmar]

To me, both curling and "laying down on a board and sliding down a ramp" are more sports than figure skating is. No event in which the winner is determined by a panel of judges who declare "who did best" should be allowed, especially if "artistic impression" counts for points. Yes, that means no figure skating, trick-based skiing or snowboarding, diving, gymnastics, rhythmic gymnastics, synchronized swimming, etc. Any contest in which you see who goes faster or farther or wins a game based on clearly-defined rules is better.

So what would you call them? While you may not like the way that winners are determined, can you honestly say that they require less expertise and athletic ability than games with mostly objective scoring criteria?

 

My dictionary says that a sport is:

an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

All the things you said don't count fit that definition.