what 3 events had most profound effect on history?

[phil_20686]

The question is very fuzzy in its nature, but i definitely agree with Mikeh that technical knowledge and innovation doesnt really cut it, as its usually the result of a long process.

 

(1) Crucification of Christ/Founding of christiantity. - a similar argument could be made for most of the worlds major religion, most of them have influenced potlitcs, ethics and people in their sphere of influence for almost an inconceivably long time. But hey, christianity is the biggest.

(2) The death of Alexander the Great - dying at 33, having conquered an empire but not yet consolidated it, insured that would fall apart. If it hadn't what would have happened? Who can say.

(3) Rome refuses to speak to Punic Envoys following the disaster at Canae. This introduced the concept of total war, when a war would no longer be decided by treaty, but but the complete destruction of your enemies ability to make war and unconditional surrender. It established the Roman attitude to conflict, and was completely new in that era, when it was expected that you might opportunistically seize some land and then negotiate a settlement. Rome rejected this idea, and believed that war should continue until you had completely destroyed your enemy as a future threat. This was really the turning point in the Punic Wars, Hannible could never take Rome as it was too heavily fortified, it was just expected that when you had obliterated their armies they would wish to come to terms. Hannibal by this stage had won a dozen stunning victories, and depleted the male population of Rome by a third, and still they showed no interest in negotiation. Amazing.

 

A close runner up: 1088 University of Bologna is founded. The idea of a place just for learning and studying and thinking-supported by the state-was really a new idea (though they had places to teach always), and probably did much to advance the technological progress of the west by turning thought into a collaborative exercise, and bringing together great minds so they could benefit from one another's insights. This at a time when paper and writing was still difficult, and books were rare.

[Vampyr]

(1) Crucification of Christ/Founding of christiantity. - a similar argument could be made for most of the worlds major religion, most of them have influenced potlitcs, ethics and people in their sphere of influence for almost an inconceivably long time. But hey, christianity is the biggest.

 

Also Christianity has probably had the biggest influence on non-adherents (mainly in terms of killing them). Similarly, of course, conflicts between different Christian sects has had a significant impact on the course of history.

[hrothgar]

FWIW, I have long suspected that even relatively minor changes to the continuum would ripple across the entire world relatively quickly.

 

Consider that there are millions of sperm competing to fertilize a given egg.

I'd guess that even the tiniest difference would probably cause a different outcome in the fertilization process.

 

About half the time, the resulting time the resulting child would be of the opposite sex.

Even if the resulting children were the same sex, there's significant differences between brothers.

Not to mention, how often miscarriages do/do not happen.

 

Even relatively "insignificant" changes would ripple across land masses.

 

Given all the evidence how agriculture in one region can impact other land masses, its not hard to image these changes hoping across the Atlantic/Pacific

(As a practical example, there is some evidence that the Little Ice Age in Europe was partially a result of burning forests in North and South America)

[32519]

Also Christianity has probably had the biggest influence on non-adherents (mainly in terms of killing them). Similarly, of course, conflicts between different Christian sects has had a significant impact on the course of history.

Sorry, but you’re fingering the wrong religion.

 

But now that you have, don’t limit this to Christian sects. Include all religions. The Jews killed their own Messiah (and that of the entire human population). Not satisfied, they started killing off their own people who did accept Yehoshua as the Messiah (see Acts chapters 1 to 9), eventually succeeding in driving their own Elohim right out of the country, first from Jerusalem and then from the whole of Israel. But they could not stop the good news from spreading. As more and more non-Jews started turning to their Elohim and accepting the message of salvation, they set out on a determined campaign to stop the message from spreading, hounding Paul everywhere he went preaching Yahweh’s Way of Salvation. The New Covenant records plenty of the beatings, imprisonments, false accusations and assassination attempts upon Paul’s life, (nearly) all at the hands of Jews. I have no idea who was involved or how they managed to do it, but the masterstroke was delivered when, in collaboration with the Roman Catholic Church of they day, they managed to establish a new religion called “Christianity.” The word does not appear in the original books and letters making up the New Covenant. Ultimately there can (and will be) only one “religion,” and only one god, the Elohim of the Jews.

 

The rise of Islam around AD 600 has questions of its own. The Jews and the Arabs have the same founding father, Abraham. The beginning of both nations can be traced back to the book of Genesis. Anyone with even the tiniest knowledge of Islam can see they also claim Abraham as the founder of their nation. Hostility between the Jews and the Arabs continues to this day. The Book of Revelation records the battle of Armageddon. Who do you think is involved? Its neither the Russians or the Chinese as many teach. It’s the Jews and the Arabs. The anger of the Arabs will rise to new levels when they find out the real truth. Yehoshua’s death on the cross was Yahweh’s way of reconciling the entire human race back to himself at the price of the death of one person only. Today people across the globe continue dying in the name of religion. We have Islam suicide bombers. We have the Sunnis and the Shiites at each others throats. We have Christianity and Islam killing each other off in places like Nigeria. Christians are killed in many Arab countries. So now, because of what happened during the early years during and after Yehoshua’s ministry, death and resurrection, we have all sorts of religions (and sects within the same religion as per your post here) claiming their god is the true god and superior to every other god. Anyone who fails to tow the line often gets killed.

 

Let me say it again: Ultimately there can (and will be) only one “religion,” and only one god, the Elohim of the Jews.

[Vampyr]

Sorry, but you’re fingering the wrong religion.

 

But now that you have, don’t limit this to Christian sects. Include all religions.

 

No, as far as impact on human history is concerned, the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition, wars between Catholics and Protestants (particularly in England) the ghettoisation of Jews throughout Europe, and the Puritans going to America to practise their own brand of religious persecution combine to make a pretty big impact on history, not to mention other effects of Christianity not involving murder (and of course making people live in a ghetto is not murdering them directly, but the often very poor living conditions had a big impact on people's health and longevity.)

 

So if it is an event, it is the crucifixion of Jesus that started it all.

[mike777]

No, as far as impact on human history is concerned, the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition, wars between Catholics and Protestants (particularly in England) the ghettoisation of Jews throughout Europe, and the Puritans going to America to practise their own brand of religious persecution combine to make a pretty big impact on history, not to mention other effects of Christianity not involving murder (and of course making people live in a ghetto is not murdering them directly, but the often very poor living conditions had a big impact on people's health and longevity.)

 

So if it is an event, it is the crucifixion of Jesus that started it all.

 

Not plato or aristoltle

 

granted I think that Jesus guy thought he was God with a capital G not small g

 

so you may have a point. :)

[barmar]

FWIW, I have long suspected that even relatively minor changes to the continuum would ripple across the entire world relatively quickly.

While it's certainly possible that some butterfly flapping its wings could be in the answer to the question, it's futile trying to identify these "events". For the purposes of discussion, ignore chaos theory and just go for the big events.

[32519]

So if it is an event, it is the crucifixion of Jesus that started it all.

You are closer to the truth than what you could ever possibly imagine!

 

Here is a quiz for you to solve:

 

Who is/was ultimately responsible for Yehoshua’s death? Was it –

1. The chief priests, the scribes, and the elders of the Jews who were plotting all along to seize him and kill him?

2. Judas Iscariot who agreed to, and then later betrayed him?

3. The Roman cohort and officers sent from the chief priests, and the Pharisees, and the scribes, and the elders of the Jews who arrested him in the early hours of the morning when none of his followers were around to defend him?

4. Those who bore false testimony against him before Caiaphas where the scribes and the elders were also gathered?

5. The full Sanhedrin who sat at sunrise and condemned him to death on a charge of blasphemy?

6. The chief priests, who, as they led Yehoshua away, between the Hall of Hewn Stone (the part of the temple complex where the Sanhedrin met) and the Antonia Fortress (Pilate’s residence during the Passover Feast), changed the charge of blasphemy to this, "We found this man subverting our nation and forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar, and saying that he himself is anointed as king."

7. The chief priests and elders who stirred up the crowds to have Bar-Abbas (son of Abba) released and Yehoshua crucified?

8. Pilate, who caved in under the pressure, and met the demands of the people shouting before him?

9. The Roman soldiers who drove in the nails which fastened him to the cross?

10. All of the above?

11. None of the above?

 

(scroll down for the answer)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If your answer was 11, “None of the above,” you answered correctly. The Elohim of the Jews sacrificed his younger son, Yehoshua, to bear upon him the transgression (note the singular) of his older son, Adam. Adam only had one restriction placed upon him, “don’t eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” Unable to uphold that one restriction resulted in the deplorable state of the world we live in now. If you’re wondering about Adam being a son of the Elohim of the Jews, read Yehoshua’s genealogy in Luke 3.

 

Amazingly, the Jews as a nation are trying to uphold a total of 613 laws which they have identified from the writings of Moses. That is utterly impossible to do. Yahweh knows it and they know it too. But Yahweh, in his merciful kindness, is in the process of reconciling fallen mankind back to himself (See 2 Corinthians 5 verse 19). Through sacrificing Yehoshua, Yahweh has cancelled the 613 laws, reducing them back to one again. All that is required now is to accept that Yehoshua has already paid the penalty for every transgression that all of us have committed. Yehoshua is Yahweh’s Way of Salvation, which is also the meaning of his name. That’s it folks! We are back to only one requirement again.

[Trinidad]

The opening of Pandora's box.

 

Rik

[Vampyr]

325, the OP started this thread to discuss an issue he or she was interested in. He asked you if you would be kind enough to post this religious stuff in another thread. Yet this is the second screed you have posted since he made that request. Can you not respect others' wishes?

[Cyberyeti]

I forget who said "anybody who quotes the bible as fact has already lost the argument". Please can we get this anti-semitic bigotry out of the thread and get back to our original discussion.

 

Christianity has had a massive effect on the world (particularly the Western world), some of it good, some of it not so good, some of it downright evil.

 

You can't travel through southern France without becoming aware of the crusade against the Cathars for example which was a series of atrocities.

[32519]

I forget who said "anybody who quotes the bible as fact has already lost the argument". Please can we get this anti-semitic bigotry out of the thread and get back to our original discussion. Christianity has had a massive effect on the world (particularly the Western world), some of it good, some of it not so good, some of it downright evil. You can't travel through southern France without becoming aware of the crusade against the Cathars for example which was a series of atrocities.

325, the OP started this thread to discuss an issue he or she was interested in. He asked you if you would be kind enough to post this religious stuff in another thread. Yet this is the second screed you have posted since he made that request. Can you not respect others' wishes?

Lets scrutinise these two posts a little closer:

This is what the OP says –

 

The question came up as a result of insomia but still...What events for which humans were responsible has had (is having, will have) the most profound effect on world history? It started out as one event but that seemed to be impossible to decide so allowed for a couple more. I was wondering if anyone else would come up with the same events as I did.

I have copied this part of the OP for emphasis…

What events for which humans were responsible has had (is having, will have) the most profound effect on world history?

 

In post 6 I was replying to others who had introduced religion into the thread. Religion possibly has had/will have the most profound effect on world history. The actions of humans has DELAYED the outcome which the Elohim of the Jews has GUARANTEED!

 

In post 29 I replied to Onoway’s post 24, maybe a bit sick but not entirely off-topic.

 

Post 41 is off-topic and has now been deleted to keep all of you happy.

 

In post 54 I was replying to your post 52.

 

In post 58 I was replying to your post 55.

 

I stand by them all. All of them are on-topic, “What events for which humans were responsible has had (is having, will have) the most profound effect on world history?”

 

New evidence keeps on surfacing that humans were involved in a well orchestrated campaign to denounce Yehoshua as the Messiah. When that failed, new evidence keeps on surfacing that humans were involved in corrupting the original message. If Yehoshua was a false messiah as claimed, all these humans needed to do was to ignore him altogether. Anything that is false inevitably dies alongside the creator thereof. Few live past the age of 90. By simply ignorning this new religious fanatic, the sect he was creating would have died within the space of 90 years. Now 2000 years later, humans are responsible for annexing many of the originators teachings, panel-beating their own version and interpretation out of those teachings, before re-launching them as a new sect. One of those sects is labelled Christianity (in whatever disguise it is advertised, be it Roman Catholic, protestant, Baptist etc). Another off-shoot is Islam. All three (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) have their roots from the Jews, who are humans.

 

For emphasis, I have copied this part of the OP a second time…

What events for which humans were responsible has had (is having, will have) the most profound effect on world history?

 

The actions of humans (as outlined above) has resulted in unnecessary religious wars and the deaths of who knows how many millions? All still on-topic and nothing to do with religion in isolation.

[Vampyr]

I'd say:

 

Development of spoken language

Invention of written language

Agriculture

 

These, and also the invention of the concept of zero mentioned elsewhere, are really important but are more the result of a long process and were, perhaps, inevitable.

 

The most important event is perhaps too obvious to mention, but I will anyway :P : the collision with an asteroid that caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. If dinos were still around, we mammals would still be shrew-like creatures, hiding in burrows during the day and scurrying around at night foraging seeds and insects.

[sfi]

Since humans didn't cause it this doesn't fit the original criteria, but the evolution of wheat was crucial to the development of early agricultural societies and the subsequent development of civilisations.

[Vampyr]

Since humans didn't cause it this doesn't fit the original criteria, but the evolution of wheat was crucial to the development of early agricultural societies and the subsequent development of civilisations.

 

Yes, forgot about that part of the OP!

[Zelandakh]

Since humans didn't cause it this doesn't fit the original criteria, but the evolution of wheat was crucial to the development of early agricultural societies and the subsequent development of civilisations.

Is the current theory not that the domestication of animals was the most important step in early agriculture, allowing larger more static communities to develop, etc?

[kenberg]

Yes, forgot about that part of the OP!

 

Yes, I had missed it as well. And, most fortunately, this makes all events such as women being impregnated by gods off topic! Whew!

[barmar]

Since humans didn't cause it this doesn't fit the original criteria, but the evolution of wheat was crucial to the development of early agricultural societies and the subsequent development of civilisations.

The article is about the evolution of domesticated wheat. So humans did cause it.

 

I listed as "agriculture" in my response, to encompass this with all the other changes to flora and fauna as a result of domestication. All the animals and plants that go into human food have evolved dramatically in the past 10K years. And humans have also evolved along with them -- early humans couldn't digest milk after weening, and I assume domesticated cows produce far more milk than their ancestors did. We've also evolved in response to other technologies, e.g. our jaws are not as strong as other primates, and our digestive system is simpler, because we learned to cook food before eating it.

[Vampyr]

Yes, I had missed it as well. And, most fortunately, this makes all events such as women being impregnated by gods off topic! Whew!

 

Otherwise, of course, the story of Leda and the Swan would be right up there, since this union produced Helen, and she...

[dustinst22]

 

 

One thing nobody has mentioned that is most decidedly on my list is the allowing of patents on living GMOs. It's an insidious thing which is already having a profound (and unfortunately in the short term apparently positive but in the long run highly detrimental) impact on agriculture, both the quality of the food we eat and the environment. It's leading into a future for which we are not only absolutely unprepared but which may be impossible to repair.

 

 

 

It's an interesting subject for sure, but unfortunately this subject is being sensationalized by the media and people are buying into it. The general consensus amongst the scientific community is that food from GM crops poses no greater risk than conventional food. I think it's far too soon to predict what the long term affects of GMO's will have on food production.

[sfi]

Is the current theory not that the domestication of animals was the most important step in early agriculture, allowing larger more static communities to develop, etc?

 

I haven't heard that theory, but it wouldn't seem to be enough. Crop agriculture requires much less space to produce food, which means communities can be physically smaller and don't need to follow the good grass during the year. This then leads to a central point where items of value (food) can be stored, which means they can be stolen, which means they now need to be defended. And thus civilisation changed markedly.

 

However, since I haven't really looked into this more than watching Bronowski's documentary (70s?) on it, I could be relying on outdated or biased viewpoints. But it sounded pretty convincing.

[Fluffy]

The most important event is perhaps too obvious to mention, but I will anyway :P : the collision with an asteroid that caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. If dinos were still around, we mammals would still be shrew-like creatures, hiding in burrows during the day and scurrying around at night foraging seeds and insects.

 

One cannot know of course, but I think humans climbed on the chain over wolves and lions due to smart tactics and tools (weapons), I would think that we would get over dinossaurs as well, if we ever got to exist.

[aguahombre]

Yes, I had missed it as well. And, most fortunately, this makes all events such as women being impregnated by gods off topic! Whew!

Not entirely off topic. The point where women stopped believing those guys were actually gods is quite relevant.

[onoway]

The article is about the evolution of domesticated wheat. So humans did cause it.

 

I listed as "agriculture" in my response, to encompass this with all the other changes to flora and fauna as a result of domestication. All the animals and plants that go into human food have evolved dramatically in the past 10K years. And humans have also evolved along with them -- early humans couldn't digest milk after weening, and I assume domesticated cows produce far more milk than their ancestors did. We've also evolved in response to other technologies, e.g. our jaws are not as strong as other primates, and our digestive system is simpler, because we learned to cook food before eating it.

Actually a whole lot of humans still cannot digest milk..some in various cultures are unable to digest it at all, others lose the capacity gradually or otherwise after maybe the age of 2 or so, as their bodies stop producing the enzyme which allows them to handle it. Quite a lot of people have found as they grow older that removing milk and milk products from their diets also removed such things as arthritis.

 

Another point is that the current theory is that possibly as many as 1 out of 100 are actually also allergic to wheat or at least gluten to one degree or another. Some dramatically so with celiac disease and others with a low level which leads to inflammation and again such things as arthritis.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Health_Letter/2009/June/Getting-out-the-gluten

 

 

However, some suggest sometimes it isn't actually just the gluten proteins that are the problem. In the past the problem proteins and enzymes were apparently neutralized by the fermentation which took place as the harvested grain was fermented slightly in stooks before threshing. That fermentation no longer takes place and some theorize that's what's leading to the growing numbers of people having problems with wheat and sometimes other cereals as well.

 

As a side note, I was interested when I found out about this as if you feed horses hay which has just been baled, and not let age or ferment for just a few days after being baled (and this is after it's dry enough to bale) you are very likely to have horses with severe digestive issues, which for horses are frequently fatal. Humans rarely have such dramatic reactions unless clearly allergic, but many theorize that arthritis and other autoimmune problems arise from a sort of low level continuous allergic response to "something" and more and more the "something" appears to be the food we eat.

 

As another side note, the old forms of wheat, emmer and such, contained up to 30% protein, most modern wheats are down to about 12-16%. Again, some theorize that that's a partial cause of obesity, as diminished nutritional values in the quest for production and "travelability" is a very common trend in all modern foods, so people have to eat a lot more of them to get the same nutrition. Combine that with a decreased capacity to absorb the nutrients that are there...

 

To get back to harping about GMO's this is one of the frightening things about it; humans have NOT evolved as much as we think we have in terms of coping with environmental stress, certainly we are kindergarteners in that race vs the Olympians such as bacteria and insects. We have no idea what the long term affect of deliberately ingesting minute quantities of poison daily is actually doing to us, nor to our children. Well, not true, actually, we do have quite a good idea through a whole lot of studies, and none of them are good news, but they are not widely publicised.

 

Our brains have apparently evolved faster than either (the rest of) our bodies or our emotional capacities to understand and respect our limits, or even to push the limits with a degree of caution. This has led to wonderful things such as the eradication of smallpox, but also the development of such things as flesheating disease.

 

Nevertheless, the development of agriculture is certainly deserving of being on the list. In my view this means grains, as that's what got people stuck in one place rather than travelling with animals so they had forage -which is a sort of agriculture but doesn't have the same sort of impact. Certainly open to opinion though.

[onoway]

 

The most important event is perhaps too obvious to mention, but I will anyway :P : the collision with an asteroid that caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. If dinos were still around, we mammals would still be shrew-like creatures, hiding in burrows during the day and scurrying around at night foraging seeds and insects.

Important without question but hardly something for which (as far as we know) man was responsible. Or maybe those stone "astronaut" heads in Mexico are indicative of a totally unexpected/unknown bit of history.. :ph34r: