Help with signalling

[ahydra]

My partner and I were having a discussion on signalling and he left threatening to give up count signals if we couldn't come to some agreement. I rather like my count signals as my main strength on defence is working out declarer's hand shape, so I'd be grateful for some advice here.

 

It all started when we were defending 3NT, I had J1098 (exactly) in spades and dummy had four small. We play standard count on declarer's lead. Dummy led a small spade and I played the J to indicate an even number; partner then got confused because the J should deny the 10.

 

My logic was that second hand normally plays low (= gives signal), so count here is correct; normally I use Js to signal if safe, but never anything bigger. Contrast that with third or fourth hand, where (assuming the trick is not won already) playing the lower of touching honours is the natural play since you want to force a high card or win the trick. However partner believes that knowing the honour cards is more important (it tells you whether it's safe to subsequently lead the suit, etc).

 

An additional complication is sometimes people play a really high card as top of a solid sequence e.g. discarding Q to indicate JT(9) in the suit but deny the K. Personally I only use that on discards or underplaying an already-won trick.

 

What are your agreements here? Do they vary between second/third/fourth hand, dummy/declarer's expected holding in the suit, suit vs NT, etc? Do you ever signal with a J from J10 (or even a 10 from 109)?

 

ahydra

[mike777]

fwiw in "OS" obvious shift, they give a low priority to giving count the vast majority of time.

 

There may be times when pard needs the count to know how long to hold up. You don't state that this is the situation in this example. That said experience and judgment helps often in these cases. What does partner need to know, assume he is looking for that and tell him/her. Often it will not be the count.

 

fwiw If we assumed that partner really needs to know the count here, that is very important, I would have no issue with playing the Jack.

[jgillispie]

My partner and I were having a discussion on signalling and he left threatening to give up count signals if we couldn't come to some agreement. I rather like my count signals as my main strength on defence is working out declarer's hand shape, so I'd be grateful for some advice here.

 

It all started when we were defending 3NT, I had J1098 (exactly) in spades and dummy had four small. We play standard count on declarer's lead. Dummy led a small spade and I played the J to indicate an even number; partner then got confused because the J should deny the 10.

 

My logic was that second hand normally plays low (= gives signal), so count here is correct; normally I use Js to signal if safe, but never anything bigger. Contrast that with third or fourth hand, where (assuming the trick is not won already) playing the lower of touching honours is the natural play since you want to force a high card or win the trick. However partner believes that knowing the honour cards is more important (it tells you whether it's safe to subsequently lead the suit, etc).

 

An additional complication is sometimes people play a really high card as top of a solid sequence e.g. discarding Q to indicate JT(9) in the suit but deny the K. Personally I only use that on discards or underplaying an already-won trick.

 

What are your agreements here? Do they vary between second/third/fourth hand, dummy/declarer's expected holding in the suit, suit vs NT, etc? Do you ever signal with a J from J10 (or even a 10 from 109)?

 

ahydra

 

 

In the example you gave, you have two options:

 

1. Play the 10, implying the J

2. Play the 9 (Std. Count)

 

I'm sure there are plenty of books you can refer to on the subject. Look up some of them and have your partner read them, too.

 

With my regular partner, we use what is shown below (a lot of this is considered standard)

 

Suit

Leads: A(AK); Top of HH; Low (3/5) from Hxx(XX); Top of Hx; xx; xxx (quite a few players play low from this, which is fine)

NT Leads: 4th/Att. (Top of Junk Sequence) A- Unblock/Ct. K- Count; Q- Count (or Unblock J; Leader has KQ109); J- J10 or HJ10; 10- H109 or 109

Suit

Signals:

P Leads Honor: Attitude (Suit Preference when the Dummy is always winning or its obvious that the suit led is a dead end)

P Leads X: Lower of HH (J from QJ); If dummy can win once, attitude. If dummy is always winning, SP)

 

Notrump

Signals: See above

w/ J or 10, use common sense

 

Unless you are playing an unusual method, the carding doesn't change. Of course, if you have QJ10 and P or Declarer leads the A, play the Q, not the J.

[nate_m]

When splitting honors (even when your holding is solid, so it's not really splitting) signalling honor strength should take priority over count in the suit. I do not believe that there is a "standard" way to play those signals. Somewhat common methods include:

 

-Always split highest honor

-Always split 2nd best honor

-Play higher honor from a 2 card sequence, lowest from 3

-Play lower honor from a 2 card sequence, highest from 3

 

I believe Kantar says that when splitting, the correct play is the same card you would play if leading the suit, so the J here.

 

Also, playing the top card from a 4 card holding to give count strikes me as very odd. I believe standard is to play 2nd highest from a worthless 4 card holding (i.e. when not splitting) both because you frequently will be forced to retain your highest from 4 anyway, and because it enables partner to know you have a doubleton if you play the highest outstanding spot.

[Zelandakh]

One simple solution that sidesteps most of the potential complexities already given is to agree that count signals are only done with spot cards and the AKQJ always carry a different message. That means that here you would avoid playing the jack unless the specific message you agreed for it in this situation is top of a sequence. You can refine this by further agreeing that playing the spot cards in the "wrong" order shows a doubleton, which covers you for those situations where you want to give count but do not have a suitable card with which to do so or perhaps just want to alert partner to the possibility of a ruff.