Suggestion needed for best use of 1D/2NT jumprebid

[Chamaco]

Hi all,

I'd like any suggestions for the definition of a still unused bid in the system I play with teammates.

 

System is very close to Precision using:

 

- 5cM

- nebulous diamond (bal 11-13/13-15 or 4+ diamonds <16 hcp)

- 1NT = 10-12/14-16

- 2C opener = 5C+4M or 6+C

- 2D = multi

- 2H = 4441-5440-5431 short in diamonds, < 16 hcp

 

The question here relates to the meaning to reserve to the 2NT rebid by opener after a 1 over 1 response.

Obviously, in a strong club cntext, the bid will not describe a strong balanced hand, so it should suggest some distributional feature, and I'd like to have your suggestions on which would be best.

 

The sequences are:

 

Sequence 1

1H:1S

2NT

 

Sequence 2

1H/1S:1NT(forcing)

2NT

 

Sequence 3

1D:1M

2NT

 

Sequence 4

1D:1NT

2NT

 

 

---------------------------------------------

We already have a definition for sequences 1 and 2(e.g. 2NT rebid after a 1M opening): in that case it shows 6M+ a side 4 card suit, distributional reverse (5-5.5 losers).

 

So the question revolves on the use of 2NT rebid after 1D opener (sequiences 3 and 4).

 

Sequence 3

1D:1M

2NT

 

What do you think is the best use for this ?

Some options:

 

a. distributional 4 card raise of the major (sort of minisplinter); if this is the case, what would the direct jumpraise to 3M show ?

 

b. shows a good 6 card diamond suit WITH 3 card support, so that when opener jump rebids 3D it denies 3 cd support;

 

c. other (please suggest )

 

In order to pick the best choice, it will be useful to know that we play 1D:1M:2M as a 3+ card raise (if 3 cards, usually with side shortness or weak doubleton).

 

Sequence 4

1D:1NT

2NT

 

Here there is not the need to suport a major, so do you recommend 2NT to use as simply quantitative ?

 

Thanks all ! :)

[Gerben47]

For sequence 3 I would suggest the maximum hand with 6♦ + 3-card support.

 

For sequence 4 I would think that 1♦ - 1NT is only bid with good values (i.e. 8 - 11 HCP) so you can invite with 14-15 (semi)balanced. If you have no 4-card major and 6-7 HCP I'd just pass 1♦ and HOPE that opponents bid their major instead of us going down in 1♦ or 1NT.

[whereagles]

My suggestions:

 

1. 1H-1S-2NT: a so-called "big H". 14-15 hcp, 6H322, good suit and side stoppers.

 

2. 1M-1NT-2NT: big H.

 

3. 1D-1NT-2NT: big H in diamonds.

 

4. 1D-1M-2NT: big H, no 3 card M. This means 1D-1M-3D will have 3 card support for pard's M. (Idea from Rigal's book.)

[Chamaco]

1. 1H-1S-2NT: a so-called "big H". 14-15 hcp, 6H322, good suit and side stoppers.

 

For this sequence I am more inclined to use the 6-4 type of hand (3C is only positive relay- other bids being signoff offer - asking the side 4-bagger; opener bids the side 4 bagger, or rbids his major if holding clubs).

 

With a maximum balanced I'll bid something, and pard with any good 10 or decent 11 count will invite anyways.

 

 

 

4. 1D-1M-2NT: big H, no 3 card M. This means 1D-1M-3D will have 3 card support for pard's M. (Idea from Rigal's book.)

About this choice:

why use 1D/2NT as no-fit and 1D/3D as 3 card fit ?

 

Wouldn't it be better to use 2NT as fitshowing so to allow more room for slam ?

 

Or would the extra room be more useful to check for clubs stopper in no-fit sequences ? (e.g. 1D:1H:3D might create problems to checkback the club stoppers ?)

In the latter case (using 2NT as "no fit" with long diamonds) , however, 2NT is more likely to wrongside the 3NT contract ?

[whereagles]

Well, you can swap 1D-1M-2NT/3D if you're more comfortable with it. Actually, I don't remember exactly how Rigal defines it. It could be that 2NT is fit and 3D non-fit.

[inquiry]

1D-1M-2NT = I play this as super duper major raise (within the context of the bidding to date). I reserve 1D-1M-3M for "good raise" but with distribution. I use modified Jacoby plus type bids over the 2NT raise. But this places some limits on your 1D-1M-3M raises... Being not so sure about your methods for other bids, here is my suggestions.

• 1D=1M=2M = normal minimum raise, 3/4 card support
  
• 1D-1M-3M = distributional raise based upon a short black suit. Generally 6421 not great diamonds, upper range but unsuited for 2NT raise
  
• 1D-1M-4D = great diamonds, four card fit, maximum
  
• 1D-1M-dbl jump new suit = splinter great fit, denies great 6+ diamonds
  
• 1D-1M-2NT = great maximum hand, 5/6 diamonds four card support, control rich
  

1D-1NT-2NT. How to play this one depends upon your opening style with five clubs and 3 or 4 diamonds. Here is the problem.. what does your 1D-1NT-3C bid mean? Is this a two suiter, or a great hand with clubs unsuited for 2C opener. Also, your 1NT opening when vul would eliminate the natural 2NT response as a likely option. So at least vul, I would use this 2NT bid to separate between minor two suited hands. With better diamonds than clubs, bid 2NT, with better clubs or equal clubs bid 3C. When not vul, your 1D bid can be a balanced 16. Here, a natural game invite becomes an important tool. So at that condition, I think invite is probably best. How do you play 1D-1NT-2C? Is this one round force? Does 2C bidder have to have clubs? With clubs and/or clubs and diamonds, and you are willing to agree to play either 1NT or 3 of a minor, you can create a lot of artificial auctions using 2C as nmf. You should consider adding this 2C as nmf, especially at imps.

 

Ben

[Chamaco]

Ty Ben :)

 

what does your 1D-1NT-3C bid mean?

 

55 minors or better, 5-5.5 losers hand.

Something like

 

x-xx-AQJxx-KQTxx

 

How do  you play 1D-1NT-2C? Is this one round force? Does 2C bidder have to have clubs?  With clubs and/or clubs and diamonds, and  you are willing to agree to play either 1NT or 3 of a minor, you can create a lot of artificial auctions using 2C as nmf.  You should consider adding this 2C as nmf, especially at imps.

 

I never thought about this, I understand the point :)

I will consider adding this agrement to our repertoire as soon as we have digested the rest of the system :-)

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

One more question, Ben.

I see your rebid system does not account for opener having a distributional reverse (about 5-5.5 losers) with 6D and 3 card support.

E.g.

1D:1H

?

 

x-KTx-AQJxxx-Axx

 

Without a conventional raise, opener is stuck between

a. single raise of the major (gross underbid)

b. jumpraise the major (but pard will never know whether 3 or 4 card support and we'll oftn end up in wrong game/slam)

c. jump raise the minor, running the risk of losing H fit (next time opener will have to bid 3D anyways on KTx-xAQJxxx-Axx) or having awkward sequence to 3NT

 

 

Don't you think that a "2NT superduper" 4-card raise of responder's major could be lumped into 3M, and that 2NT could be used for this hand ?

 

BTW what do you mean with "superduper" :)

[inquiry]

Left out the 6-3 hand with three card support and good diamonds. I use an immediate 3D for that hand. (1D-1M-3D)... this treatment has been posted numerous times by a variety of players. This is another reason to keep 2C as nmf, so you can then rebid 3D to show great hand with diamonds (since you are unable to jump eariler).

 

What do a I mean by super duper... and why don't I lump the 2NT raise I mentioned in with the 3M raise?

 

I use 2NT to include a lot of game forcing hands. What if you are 1-5-6-1 with lots of points. Do you want to leap to game? Do you want to splinter in a suit? Anyway that would be a super duper hand, where I would not accept a signoff... but back to the distinction. I don't play precison (anymore), so my 2NT rebid showing support can be "really, really good". There is a principle that the higher the invite, the more limited the hand has to be, so consider this auction...

 

1D-1H-3H...

 

There is no room what soever for responder. He either signs off with a pass or he accepts and game will be bid. If your range here is fairly large, you will see the problem. Playing 2/1, I make this 1m-1M-3M very narrowly definded. Anything better than that goes through 2NT, where you have some room to invesigate game still (using 3C by responder as automatic game try rejection, and 3D as reask.... for responder to reconsider). Playing precision like, your range on your opening bid is much more limited. Your 2M raise is probalby something like 11-13, maybe 3 card support. So your jump to 3M probalby 14-15... I would include distribution in this. So not actually 14-15 hcp... This means your 2NT bid should be a very healthy raise, I would say a hand that "up-evaluated" after the response, so is in fact, worth more than your normal 1D opening bid... Consider this hand I had just last night...

 

S-void H-AKJx D-xxxxx C-AQJx This hand I would go through 2NT (yes with a void, I might splinter as well).. But this hand is clearly worth way more than a 3H raise.

 

 

Ben

[Chamaco]

What do a I mean by super duper... and why don't I lump the 2NT raise I mentioned in with the 3M raise?

 

Got it, my question was meant in a Precision context, now that I see you include strong 16/17+ hands, things are much clearer to me :)

 

Left out the 6-3 hand with three card support and good diamonds. I use an immediate 3D for that hand. (1D-1M-3D)... this treatment has been posted numerous times by a variety of players. This is another reason to keep 2C as nmf, so you can then rebid 3D to show great hand with diamonds (since you are unable to jump eariler).

 

So, if I get it right, you use jump rebid to 3D to show good diams + 3 card support, and if you have distributional reverse with good diams without 3 card support you'd use 2C as "nmf" ?

 

That makes sense too, thanks ! :-)

[NickToll]

Another possible use of 1♦-then-2NT is for strong minor 2suiters, usually 5-5: this should allow you to bid 1♦-then-3♣ when you have a strong 2suiter with only four diamonds and five or more (usually six) clubs. This treatment could be valuable if your development of 2♣ opening bid doesn't allow you to show a secondary diamond suit.

[bhtf]

for (only) mine

 

1D:1H:2NT with KTx-x-AQJxxx-Axx

 

1D:1H:2S(art):2NT(relay):

3C with x-KTx-AQJxxx-Axx

3D with A-KTx-AQJxxx-xxx

3NT with KJxx-x-AQJx-AQxx (not open by 1C)

 

1D:1H:3D with AKx-xx-AQJxxx-xx or Jxx-x-AKJTxx-KQx

 

if helping you where happy lol ;) :P

[pclayton]

When I played a strong club we had 1♦ - 1M - 2N as a void splinter. But it never came up. When we switched to a 10-12 NT NV, 2N became a balanced maximum raise (up to 16, since 1♣ - 1♦ - 1N was 17-19), and 3M promised a s/v somewhere.

 

Some pairs play 1♦ - 1M - 2N to be a solid diamond suit.

 

I can't remember what 1♥ - 1♠ - 2N specifically was, but there's no reason not to play it any different than the 1♦ opener.

[Adebisi]

Hi, as i play those sequences:

1) 1H - 1S

2NT as max 5H/4S and singleton in minor, now 3C asks: 3D/H=spl D/C and u

could stay below game if needed.

3S=max 14-15 and 5H/4S22

3C/D as max 14-15 5+minor

 

2)1M - 1NT

2NT as max 6322 type, so 3MAJ always promises side shortness.But 2NT could

also show max and any 6-4 type or hand.

 

3)1D - 1H

2S=max 14-15 with 4H and any sideshortness-->2NT=automatic and opener

shows his short suit.Here again possible to stay below game if responder is

min and short suit doesent fit.

2NT=could be max 14-15 55 minors, or maybe max 6D and 3card supp,when

3D deny 3H

 

1D - 1S

2NT=max 14-15 with 4S and any sideshortness-->3C=automatic and opener

bids 3D/H/S with D/H/C shortness.

 

4)1D - 1NT

2NT when u play 10-12 NT should be max bal/or semibal