5 trumps when partner doubles for takeout

[Lord Molyb]

[hv=pc=n&s=s95ht7dt876cqjt87&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=1cdp]133|200[/hv]

Does it make a difference whether it is IMPs or matchpoints?

[SteveMoe]

I'd see pass as the least misleading call, followed by 1♦. ("Partner has asked me to bid a suit so I will bid one" - is the only justification for 1♦).

1NT is out of the question on values. Partner and opener have at least 28 HCP between them. It is unlikely opener will sit for either a pass or 1♦ response.

 

I like Mel C.'s idea - if partner has shown opening values (TO Double qualifies) then add H+N+L (H=# honors A-10, N=# cards in their suit, L=level of the doubled bid) .GTE. 9, then pass is a viable option. I'm even more likely to pas with 9's, 8's and 7's...Here we have 3+5+1=9. I like pass because I don't want partner leading ♦. If partner has a strong overcall (5-carder?), we should still land on our feet if I pass.

 

I do not see a difference here with IMPs or MPs.

[the hog]

1D and this is not even close. I suggest that anyone who passes is making a very poor decision.

[mycroft]

Do you think you're getting out for less than -200 anywhere you land? Then bid (I do; it's just as hard to double 1♦ when it's down as it is to double 1♣ when it's right). Because you're almost certainly at best -180 in clubs. Responder's pass doesn't necessarily show weakness.

 

If you pass, what do you do when it comes back rewound? Willing to play for 400 an overtrick?

[Cyberyeti]

1D and this is not even close. I suggest that anyone who passes is making a very poor decision.

 

Quite often partner will have a balanced hand too good for a 1N overcall (responder couldn't XX, not sure if that's business in the US, it is here), and I'm happy taking the money opposite that.

[akwoo]

I pass.

 

But I would bid 1♦ if my clubs were QJT73. Intermediates matter a lot in these situations.

[mikeh]

I pass at all scoring.

 

Partner is unlikely to be void in clubs....if he is, too bad. He will almost always hold at least one and will often hold 2 clubs. He will lead a club if he has one: this is the standard lead against this auction.

 

This is almost surely good for us. Apart from getting us on track to draw trump (which may be difficult unless partner has 2 of them), it means he isn't leading away from his holdings in other suits.

 

Partner often, on these auctions, has extras: responder passed and we have crap. We hope to make this a battle in which opener is repeatedly endplayed.

 

The payoff here can be enormous: picture partner with some 4=4=3=2 18 count with no club stopper.

 

Meanwhile, even if they make, we could well win imps against our going for 200 or more should we bid.

 

We may well have no fit, and a partner who is going to feel he has to make a strength showing call over our 1♦.

 

As for the possibility of a redouble, I don't know what most here would consider standard, but in my partnerships, redouble is SOS. Now, if 1♣ promises 4+, I can see it as penalty but, if it did, I would have bid 1♦ anyway :P . In my experience, when a good player on my right converts a 1-level t.o. double, and I hold some 4333 13 count, with say AKx in clubs, we are better off somewhere else.

[ggwhiz]

Style factors on the initial double:

 

I will never be in 1♦ on a 4-2 fit, pard will bid 1 of a major with significant extras on those but others might be stuck.

 

Can you stand them running to 1 of a major either directly or after an sos redouble if partner hits it? (I would rather bid 1♦ than run to 2).

 

I might pass at mp's on these colors knowing it's swinging but at imps I'm taking a take out double out. Rho's pass includes a lot of hands with modest values that dwarf mine.

[HighLow21]

I am passing all day. Happy to have 5 strong trumps (and a trump lead about 95% of the time) opposite partner on this. I would estimate that they make the contract less frequently than we get doubled... and if they can make the contract they may be able to whack us too.

 

1C doubled passed out all around is one of the most difficult contracts to make in bridge.

[Lord Molyb]

partner had ♠Axxx ♥AQJxx ♦AKx ♣x and I passed, 1♣ went down 2

[the hog]

partner had ♠Axxx ♥AQJxx ♦AKx ♣x and I passed, 1♣ went down 2

 

You were lucky. Passing was an appalling call.

[HighLow21]

partner had ♠Axxx ♥AQJxx ♦AKx ♣x and I passed, 1♣ went down 2

I was expecting -1 to -3 with no game on for our side.

[mfa1010]

Pass. I prefer to play in clubs.

[mikeh]

You were lucky. Passing was an appalling call.

Maybe just for a change, you should consider whether the fact that some pretty good players opt for pass is a hint that maybe pass is not an 'appalling call'. Note: I am not suggesting that the given result is a reason for you changing your opinion...no one hand ever really proves anything, but when some real life experts express a view contrary to yours, maybe that should mean something.

[the hog]

Maybe just for a change, you should consider whether the fact that some pretty good players opt for pass is a hint that maybe pass is not an 'appalling call'. Note: I am not suggesting that the given result is a reason for you changing your opinion...no one hand ever really proves anything, but when some real life experts express a view contrary to yours, maybe that should mean something.

 

You are right in that one hand proves nothing. You did see that the opps had a decent 7 card S fit.? From 30 years experience Mike, I have found that passes on such a weak suit do not work out well. Still, I am happy that others pass on these holdings and wish they did it against me.

Comments like "Quite often partner will have a balanced hand too good for a 1N overcall" are self serving at best.

[the hog]

repeat post.

[ggwhiz]

partner had ♠Axxx ♥AQJxx ♦AKx ♣x and I passed, 1♣ went down 2

 

I don't have a problem with pass but the opponents hands would be interesting if they could/should run out (eventually) to 1♠. I personally have never sat for the double after opening 1♣ on this auction and that's over a few decades. Mind you I have sent it back with 50% regrets.

 

Any further auction would get messy when your partner knows you thought 1♣ was going down and they are looking at this.

[the hog]

I was expecting -1 to -3 with no game on for our side.

 

I would not be surprised to see it make. Also do you notice that most players would bid 1H on this hand. I am sure Mikeh would.

[mikeh]

I would not be surprised to see it make. Also do you notice that most players would bid 1H on this hand. I am sure Mikeh would.

wrong again. close, this time, but not quite.

[uhhlv]

I think you must consider what would happen next. I´d expect, opps play only 1♣ when West hast real clubs. Otherwise he would XX. So we only play 1♣ if there´s a 5card club behind me.

But my clubs are so good that I´ll get 3 tricks most of the time. It is very close if 1♣x is a good contract or not.

passing against bidding 1:1

 

 

When I pass 1♣ partner would attack clubs. That are good news. When I bid 1♦ he would attack diamonds.

passing against bidding 2:1

 

 

When I pass 1♣, partner might think that I ve much more defense against other contracts. After a XX he might double any other contract bid by the opps. I don t know what to do if the bidding goes

1♣-X-p-p-

XX-p-1♠-p

p-X-p-?

So passing against bidding 2:2

 

1♦ might be a disaster or might be good. Very difficult to see.

passing against bidding 3:3

 

Against weak opps, which might play 1♣ X without real Clubs on West, I´d pass.

Against better opps I´d bid. Why? I think the disadvantage that partner would attack diamonds is not a big problem. First of all Partner might have a good diamond holding for an attack. Secondly when opps bid after 1♦ I´d expect that most of the time I must attack.

[mfa1010]

I would not be surprised to see it make.

 

Noone would, but the point is taking the percentage action.

[HighLow21]

Maybe just for a change, you should consider whether the fact that some pretty good players opt for pass is a hint that maybe pass is not an 'appalling call'. Note: I am not suggesting that the given result is a reason for you changing your opinion...no one hand ever really proves anything, but when some real life experts express a view contrary to yours, maybe that should mean something.

Agreed with this. I'm not saying pass is a slam dunk--i.e., that bidding is an appalling call. It's not--it's fairly close. But to call a pass an appalling call is... well, kind of appalling.

 

In my view this hand falls into the majority of hands that appear in this forum--namely, there may be one view that wins consensus, but not by a mile, and there are other opinions that have plenty of merit.

 

I see the merits of bidding something, I just personally think 1♣ doubled has a very good chance of being the best spot for our side.

[the hog]

Noone would, but the point is taking the percentage action.

I wonder if it is even the percentage action, given that on tis hand, for example, the opps have a S fit.

I am glad you say that "no one would", because I find the comments that claim certain 1 or 2 off to be silly. By the way, leaving it in does not do much for partnership confidence when it makes.

Now KQJxx or better and I would leave it in, though it could still make.