Oddie77 Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 I was surprised to find myself with ♠ X♥♦ AKQTXXXXX♣ AKQ In a standard club night with hands dealt at the table Bidding went (P) - 1♥ - (P) - 2♦ (me 2/1)(2♠) - 3♥ Firstly is a standard 2♦ ok to start with (assume it is) I continued (P) - 1♥ - (P) - 2♦ (me 2/1)(2♠) - 3♥ - (P) - 3♠(P) - 4♥ - From here I could have tried RCKB, but would have got 2 with the queen back so not sure if its AK ♥ or includes A ♠ Are there any fairly common and easy to remember ways to find out specifically about the A♠, I don't want to introduce a massive memory drain as I doubt that I will see a similar situation more than 3 (or so) times again, but a simple addition would be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hi Oddie, Welcome to the forum! After partner's 4♥ you can try 5♣. If partner bids 5♠ now it hopefully means he has the ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hello Oddie and welcome to the BBO forums. A couple of simple possibilities: you could agree that 6♦ over 3♥ denies first round spade control while 3♠ followed by 6♦ shows it; or you could agree that 4♦ over 3♥ is similar to a SJS and sets diamonds as trumps. Then you can bid 5♥ next time around as XRKCB and effectively ask specifically about the ♠A. In the general case, voids in partner's suit often cause problems for simple standard methods so it is not surprising that it was difficult for you to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kungsgeten Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 I'm not going to prepose a method to deal with hands like this in the future, but a common treatment is playing 4NT over an opening bid as regular Blackwood (not keycards). It sounds like that you have no other ways of finding out if partner holds the ace of spades (with your current methods). If you get a one ace response to Blackwood, then you'd probably have to play it in 6 diamonds. If you get a two ace response, then you can bid the grand. Helenes way is also a possibility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddie77 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Thanks, I like the 4NT/5♣ for 2 different types of control ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorne50 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 This does not address the question you asked but I think 3♠ was a dangerous bid. Doesn't it imply something in hearts? I would be scared partner may convert 6♦ to 6♥ after that bid. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Is it worth giving up whatever your normal meaning is for a 3NT opening to play this to ask for spec. aces?http://www.bridgeguys.com/Conventions/kabel_3_no_trump_opening.html Or there's always the 4NT opening to ask for spec. aces. I see so many monster hands posted here and many don't arrive at the optimal contract since spec. aces can't be found or since someone has to guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Is it worth giving up whatever your normal meaning is for a 3NT opening to play this to ask for spec. aces?http://www.bridgeguys.com/Conventions/kabel_3_no_trump_opening.html Or there's always the 4NT opening to ask for spec. aces. I see so many monster hands posted here and many don't arrive at the optimal contract since spec. aces can't be found or since someone has to guess. The OP is responder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddie77 Posted February 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 We play 1M - 3NT shows support plus void with slam interest. Even if it was a specific ace ask P would show the ace of hearts first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 I was surprised to find myself with ♠ X♥♦ AKQTXXXXX♣ AKQ In a standard club night with hands dealt at the table Bidding went (P) - 1♥ - (P) - 2♦ (me 2/1)(2♠) - 3♥ Firstly is a standard 2♦ ok to start with (assume it is) I continued (P) - 1♥ - (P) - 2♦ (me 2/1)(2♠) - 3♥ - (P) - 3♠(P) - 4♥ - From here I could have tried RCKB, but would have got 2 with the queen back so not sure if its AK ♥ or includes A ♠ Are there any fairly common and easy to remember ways to find out specifically about the A♠, I don't want to introduce a massive memory drain as I doubt that I will see a similar situation more than 3 (or so) times again, but a simple addition would be good.I have the agreement with my partner that when going to slam and with a fit then 6X asks 3th round control to go to 7. Therefore this with be a dangerous hand for us. You need to be sure that you can tell partner to pass 6♦ (or bid 7♦) at some point. And that he knows that you have ♦'s on your own and no ♥'s.I would have bid 6♦ iso 3♠. Afraid that partner will convert ♦ to ♥ if I go to 6♦ in any other way.I think 3♠ was a dangerous bid. Doesn't it imply something in hearts? I would be scared partner may convert 6♦ to 6♥ after that bid.I agree with this.After partner's 4♥ you can try 5♣. If partner bids 5♠ now it hopefully means he has the ace.(P) - 1♥ - (P) - 2♦ (me 2/1)(2♠) - 3♥ - (P) - 3♠(P) - 4♥ -(P)-5♣(P) - 5♥-(p)-6♦Can partner now think you are asking 3th round control for 7♥? A couple of simple possibilities: you could agree that 6♦ over 3♥ denies first round spade control while 3♠ followed by 6♦ shows itI think that I like this.(P) - 1♥ - (P) - 2♦ (me 2/1)(2♠) - 3♥ - (P) - 3♠(P) - 4♥ -(P)-5♣(P) - 5♥-(p)-6♦Here 6♦ sounds as to play. Hopefully partner will understand it and not convert to 6♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 I think that I like this.(P) - 1♥ - (P) - 2♦ (me 2/1)(2♠) - 3♥ - (P) - 3♠(P) - 4♥ -(P)-5♣(P) - 5♥-(p)-6♦Here 6♦ sounds as to play. Hopefully partner will understand it and not convert to 6♥I assume you mean:(P) - 1♥ - (P) - 2♦ (me 2/1)(2♠) - 3♥ - (P) - 3♠(P) - 4♥ -(P)-6♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 I assume you mean:(P) - 1♥ - (P) - 2♦ (me 2/1)(2♠) - 3♥ - (P) - 3♠(P) - 4♥ -(P)-6♦Yes, that is what I meant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 You could've started with 1♥-4NT as regular Ace ask. If partner shows 1 he probably has the ♥A, if he shows 2 you can bid 7NT. But that's not a certain way to find out about ♠A specifically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I don't think 3♠ is a cuebid for hearts, but rather a choice of games looking for spade stopper. Partner bids 4♥, either he has very long hearts or no spade stopper, which of them?, well if he had very long hearts he could had bid 4♥, by bdding 3♥ he wanted to involve you into the bidding. So lack of jump to 4♥ before could mean one of 2 things: he is looking for different strain or different level. It is very hard that he was looking for a different level, there is just not enough points on the deck for him to look for slam, or at least it is very unlikely (unless he somehow though that 3♥ was a weak bid). So I supose he does not. IMO he's got something like ♠Jxx ♥AKQ10xx ♦x ♣Jxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I was surprised to find myself with ♠ X♥♦ AKQTXXXXX♣ AKQ In a standard club night with hands dealt at the table Bidding went (P) - 1♥ - (P) - 2♦ (me 2/1)(2♠) - 3♥ Firstly is a standard 2♦ ok to start with (assume it is) I continued (P) - 1♥ - (P) - 2♦ (me 2/1)(2♠) - 3♥ - (P) - 3♠(P) - 4♥ - From here I could have tried RCKB, but would have got 2 with the queen back so not sure if its AK ♥ or includes A ♠ Are there any fairly common and easy to remember ways to find out specifically about the A♠, I don't want to introduce a massive memory drain as I doubt that I will see a similar situation more than 3 (or so) times again, but a simple addition would be good. Just open with a direct Ace ask , 3nt for me. Wtp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Just open with a direct Ace ask , 3nt for me. Wtp?Tp will have to be sorted out by the director. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Just open with a direct Ace ask , 3nt for me. Wtp?The problem is that bidding when it's your partner's turn to bid will bar him from answering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogs Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Don't think there is any scientific way to bid this. 1♥ - 2♦2♥ - 6♦? Opener knows diamond bidder has no interest in hearts.If opener has the ace in spades or clubs, he should'know' it is the 13th trick and bid 7♦. That istrusting partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Tp will have to be sorted out by the director. Yes I posted erroneously from my mobile last night and could not edit it.Easy enough though. Jump shift into Ds, set the suit and ask for cues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinorKid Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 How about using strong ♦ jump shift, cue bid ♣ and then bid 6♦ ? When you know what trumps to play your slam, why not? If THEY had not interfered after your SJS, you may bid ♦ twice, truly setting trumps and asking for cue-bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinorKid Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Don't think there is any scientific way to bid this. 1♥ - 2♦2♥ - 6♦? Opener knows diamond bidder has no interest in hearts.If opener has the ace in spades or clubs, he should'know' it is the 13th trick and bid 7♦. That istrusting partner. It does't really work, it asks specifically the trump ♦A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 The way we would handle this is that (I wouldn't do this without discussion) 1♥-3♦(SJS, presumably this now quietens opps)-3♥-5♥ would be exclusion (diamonds agreed, void heart) for us, as we have other ways of handling hands with heart support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinorKid Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 1♥ - 3♦ -3♥ - 4♦ -4♥ - 5♣ -5♥ - 6♦ - Having ♠A1♥ - 3♦ -3♥ - 4♦ -4♥ - 5♣ -5♠ - 7♦ - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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