Reopening double with a void?

[MickyB]

yet they do not make a negative x. In other words I think the north hand is the hand to debate/discuss....not the south hand.

 

every one I give the south doubles and then passes but clearly you have doubts what should be bid.

 

everyone I give the north hand doubles..negative x. but a few say pass is a second option.

 

In any event clearly a deal worth discussing in full, thank you.

 

Double then 2N is a huge overbid. I quite like what your correspondent says about the meaning for X then 2S, but it doesn't fit in with our system; as mentioned, we play NFB here. In the partnerships where I play transfers, X then 2S as 4S NF - possibly showing 4-4 in spades and diamonds - sounds excellent.

[rhm]

♠

I found this a very interesting expert thread thank you for posting it MickeyB.

 

Wanted to share an email conversation regarding this hand from 3 people I sent this around to, everyone started with double after the pass by partner but they thought partner's pass was very wrong:

 

 

"I don't understand partner's actions at all. Was partner really going to sit for 2CX? I think partner should make a negative double of 2c, which would get us to 4S quickly. That may go down, but playing 3CX making is not very good."

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"I understand partner's actions as both P and double are reasonable (and would be winning actions on a different day).

 

 

 

However, I agree with (Axxx) that DBl of 2C is better (planning to bid 2N over 2H, a slight overbid justified by D fit and good club stoppers) as otherwise can't show moderate values later"

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"(Cxxx's) response actually raises one of my pet topics/”peeves”.

 

 

 

I think after making a negative double, responder should be able to bid 2S over 2H with this hand. Otherwise when opener is 4-4 in the majors you are likely to miss your spade fit. I understand a lot of people, probably most, would say that 2S after making a negative double shows a spade one-suiter that was too weak to bid 2S immediately, but in today’s world that is a very narrow range of hands as 2S can be bid immediately on, say, Q109xxx AQx xxx x. If you have less than this you can’t really afford to commit the partnership to 2S anyway. Yes, 2S immediately is forcing, but in practice the opponents will compete often enough so that if your side does not have a good fit you will not come to any harm. You might get to a shaky 2NT, that no one is going to double. And the chances of negative double, then 2S by responder, followed by three passes, which is what you are presumably hoping for, is pretty remote anyway. Making a negative double with a one-suiter is very dangerous (admittedly less so with spades) because you may never get to show your suit. More dangerous IMO than bidding 2S directly on marginal values."

Your correspondents either were not aware that North was playing NFB or they do not know the implications of NFB.

North pass is quite reasonable given the fact that North was playing NFB, which is important in this context.

If you make a negative double it is not clear what you want to do over a likely 2♥ response from opener.

Remember that most, who play NFB, play a new suit bid after a negative double as a real suit with game forcing values, not a moderate hand.(A hand too strong for a NFB).

So 2♠ is out and any other bid you now make is a substantial overbid or a misbid or both.

 

Over a reopening double North can bid 2♠ (my preference) or sit for the double. 2♠ is unlikely to be a long suit, because North made no NFB before.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[PhilKing]

Over a reopening double North can bid 2♠ (my preference) or sit for the double. 2♠ is unlikely to be a long suit, because North made no NFB before.

 

Rainer Herrmann

 

This.

[jogs]

North holds ♣ AJ92. This makes it likely that West

holds 6+ clubs. Therefore while 4=4=3=2 is possible

for South, it is hardly likely.

After the 2♦ raise, South would know to compete to 3♦.

South would not pass 3♣X.

[wanoff]

Don't need to play Acol. The 2♦ is best playing 2/1. North has 4 clubs.

His RHO overcalled 2♣. How many clubs can South have? South surely has

four diamonds and is a favorite to hold five diamonds.

 

The system wasn't given in the original post so I suggested 2♦ by north playing Acol weak nt.

In Acol, 1♦ shows 5 (or specifically 4441) or 15+ balanced(majors before minors). 15+ with only 4 was vanishingly small odds after 2♣ so 1♦ was a not quite a guaranteed 5cd.

 

This isn't a problem about doubling with a void, because if you swap a club for a diamond between the opener and overcaller, and north remains trap passing, the result is 2CX making.

Aren't you supposed to limit your hand asap which is why I would have bid 2♦.

Negative doubles at 2 level used to be on 9pts but maybe that's a bit old fashioned now so maybe I should start doubling on 8. With this non-Acol system I suppose you have to double.

Pass limits the hand to 0+.