Would you pass Opening 1C or 1D?

[mike777]

Assume sayc or 2/1 or BWS.

 

1) Would you pass an opening bid of 1C or 1D with a 5 card major and zero HCP if you were stiff or void in opening bid suit?

 

2) If so, what is the weakest hand with a 5 card major you would respond with?

[pclayton]

There was a discussion in MSC about this last month. The experts were asked with which of the following hands they would pass an opening bid of 1♣:

 

Jxxxx, Txxxx, x, xx

Jxxxx, QTxxx, x, xx

Jxxxx, ATxxx, x, xx

 

I realize these hands has a doubleton in pard's suit instead of a stiff, but the majority of the panel voted for only the last one being acceptable as a response. Personally, I think the last 2 are OK.

 

Playing 2/1, I'll find a bid with a 3 or 4 count, if I don't fit partner. I never pass a 6 count or a decent 5, unless I'm playing strong club, etc..

 

The world-class experts you mentioned in the other thread would also pass a "forcing" bid by partner if it improved the contract. Helgemo did this with Jimmy Cayne on a 5 count and played Q8xx opposite a stiff 7, when Cayne manufactured a reverse.

[luke warm]

#1 - 2D, but would maybe pass if vul

#2 - 2D, probably

#3 - 2D

 

that's why that convention was made

[pbleighton]

Eric Kokish had a column in the ACBL Bulletin a few months back, where he advocated very light responses to one of a suit bids. I wrote to him, and asked him to clarify his position. He was nice enough to respond:

 

"There are no hands with a 5CM that I would pass in response to 1m, and most

3/4-counts are responses. As we play 1D-1NT=8-10, not 4M, 1D-1M may be 3 if

less than 8. How much less than 8 is in the eye of the beholder. As we're

now opening 2D with 18-20 BAL, we no longer have to worry about a BAL 2NT

rebid so there's more safety. And with 1m-1M; 2M either 15-17 BAL or shapely

it's pretty reasonable Not to pass. I might pass 1C or 1D with a 4333

2-count, would never pass 1M with support or shortness. Might respond 1S to

1H with a terrible hand, occ with only two spades, but normally four.

Obviously, never pass with an ace or an honor in partner's suit."

 

Food for thought.

 

Peter

[the hog]

I would pass without hesitation. I would bid with the third hand posted by Phil.

[Free]

Depends on the situation, vulnerability and the hand itself. I can't make any handevaluation without seeing the exact hand... However, most of the time I'll pass.

[mikestar]

Agree with Ron. Pass the first two, bid the last one (it's worth at least 6). If we will virtually never pass 1m, why not make it explicitly forcing and design the system accordingly? A non forcing opening that is never passed is a poor design.

 

Combined with the modern trend toward light openings, something like 1D-1S becomes unplayable even in absence of competiton.

 

Even world class experts sometimes forget indirect costs. 1M over 1m on a 0 count with a five carder may well gain when it is used and opener is minimum, but it will lose when opener tries for or bids game assuming a 6 count--and if opener won't do this for fear of the 0 count, constuctive efficiency suffers horribly, which is a HUGE indirect cost. Also remember the opener will have 17 point (for example) more often when you have 0 than when you have 6.

 

FN do fine with forcing 1 bids, but they are ultra sound.

[inquiry]

I pass with the first hand phil showed. No problem

 

I float out 2♥ with most partners with the third hand (I play RFR, showing weak hand, 5+♠ and 4+♥

 

With the second hand, I treat this as 4-5 in the majors, and bid only 1♥. Here is partner bids a "forcing" 1 make a clever pass of the forcing bid. I have to admit this pass where I respond on dirt (a hand the majority of players would not respond on) being happy to have found a fit have for the most part not turned out as well as I had hoped. But partner has always been understanding of why I choose to pass such a forcing bid.

 

Ben

[TimG]

Assume sayc or 2/1 or BWS.

 

1) Would you pass an opening bid of 1C or 1D with a 5 card major and zero HCP if you were stiff or void in opening bid suit?

 

2) If so, what is the weakest hand with a 5 card major you would respond with?

1) I'd pass and not be the least bit concerned.

 

2) An Ace would probably be enough. Not two Queens or a King and a Jack.

[han]

I pass with the first hand phil showed. No problem

 

I float out 2♥ with most partners with the third hand (I play RFR, showing weak hand, 5+♠ and 4+♥

 

With the second hand, I treat this as 4-5 in the majors, and bid only 1♥. Here is partner bids a "forcing" 1 make a clever pass of the forcing bid. I have to admit this pass where I respond on dirt (a hand the majority of players would not respond on) being happy to have found a fit have for the most part not turned out as well as I had hoped. But partner has always been understanding of why I choose to pass such a forcing bid.

 

Ben

Same for me, but I would also bid 2H with the third hand. This is an honest response in my book, I see no reason to sell this as anything but 5+ spades and 4+ hearts.

[Guest Jlall]

assuming BWS (so we do NOT play reverse flannery...) I would bid 1H with the first 2 hands, and 1S with the last hand.

[Fluffy]

pass pass pass

 

With good 5 HCP I would bid as everyone, with an Ace I could also make a move, pass with less than that.

[HeartA]

There was a discussion in MSC about this last month. The experts were asked with which of the following hands they would pass an opening bid of 1♣:

 

Jxxxx, Txxxx, x, xx

Jxxxx, QTxxx, x, xx

Jxxxx, ATxxx, x, xx

 

I realize these hands has a doubleton in pard's suit instead of a stiff, but the majority of the panel voted for only the last one being acceptable as a response. Personally, I think the last 2 are OK.

 

Playing 2/1, I'll find a bid with a 3 or 4 count, if I don't fit partner. I never pass a 6 count or a decent 5, unless I'm playing strong club, etc..

 

The world-class experts you mentioned in the other thread would also pass a "forcing" bid by partner if it improved the contract. Helgemo did this with Jimmy Cayne on a 5 count and played Q8xx opposite a stiff 7, when Cayne manufactured a reverse.

First hand, pass for sure.

For the second one, hard to say. Pass most of times. It may depends on the score, the situation of match and the mood.

There is no question on third hand, 1S response.

[luke warm]

assuming BWS (so we do NOT play reverse flannery...) I would bid 1H with the first 2 hands, and 1S with the last hand.

sorry, i'd assumed reverse flannery was an optional convention, at least as far as 2/1 goes... that's why i'd bid 2D on all 3 hands