My partnership would have gotten to...

[humilities]

Playing 2/1, how would your favorite partnership fare on this hand? What's your auction?

 

IMPs, game all, auction has proceeded thus far:

[hv=pc=n&s=saqj2h4da62cqt543&n=skha32d975cak9872&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1c1hdp2cp]266|200[/hv]

[manudude03]

7C quite trivially.

 

....4C (RKC)

4H-5C (0/3 key cards, signoff opposite 0)

5S-7C (3KC+king of spades, can count 6 clubs, 4 spades, 1 diamond, 1 heart and a heart ruff, even if partner only has 5 clubs, then there are surely 2 heart ruffs)

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Playing 2/1, how would your favorite partnership fare on this hand? What's your auction?

 

IMPs, game all, auction has proceeded thus far:

[hv=pc=n&s=saqj2h4da62cqt543&n=skha32d975cak9872&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1c1hdp2cp]266|200[/hv]

Perhaps:

1C - ( 1H ) - DBL

2C - 3H! = splinter for ♣

3S ( cue ) - 4C ( using Zelandakh replies )

??

.. 4D ( 1st step = no slam interest )

.. 4H ( 0 or 3 )

.. 4S ( 1 or 4 )

.. 4NT ( 2 - ♣ Q )

.. 5C ( 2 + ♣ Q )

 

After:

4H ( 0 or 3 ) - 4NT ( K -ask ; specific K replies )

5S ( ♠K ; no other side-suit K's )

...... - 7C ( counting 4s, 1h, 1d, 6c, ♥-ruff = 13 )

[Cyberyeti]

For us:

 

1♣-(1♥)-2♣(4+♣ inverted, not FG, may contain 4M)

2♦(inv+ ask)-2♠(nat)

3♣-4♦(keycard)

4♥(0/3)-4♠(Q♣ or a 6th one ?)

5♠(yes and K♠)-7♣

 

It's known to be cold unless A♥ is single which seems unlikely with opps not raising hearts.

[kenrexford]

After splinter, spade cue, and Kickback, Responder can easily find the spade King and then count 13 tricks.

[gszes]

1c (1h)

 

x

 

2c denies 4 spades also good reason to avoid 1n

 

2h forcing to 2n

 

3h heart ace only and at least 6 clubs 2 of top 3 honors no other stops (would bid same way w/o spade K)

 

3s any spade help? easy way to find out the unlikely chance p has the spade K

 

3n partial stop our holding tells us it is the stiff K (failure to bid 2s means it cant be a full stop)

 

4c rkc

 

4d 0 or 3 (we know it is 3 due to heart A)

 

at this point we can count 12 tricks on top in nt and 13 in clubs p has shown 14 count

 

and it is unreasonable for a 6 card suit headed AK to bid only 2c if they had another K. The

 

only question remaining is does p have 6 or 7 clubs and the easy

 

5n here asks for extra club length since club quality is already taken care of

 

6c nope

 

7c it is good luck p

 

 

 

[MrAce]

1♣--DBL

2♣--3♥ (splinter)

3♠-- 3♠ showing value/keycards and grandslam

[Lord Molyb]

2♣! - (2♥) - 4♥

4♠ - 4NT

5♦ - 5NT

6♠ - 7♣

 

Playing precision

[Zelandakh]

1♣ - (1♥) - X;

2♣ - 3♥(spl);

4♣(suitable, no !D control) - 4♦(RKCB);

4♠(0/3) - 5♦(K ask);

5♠ - 7♣

 

You specified 2/1 but not that we could not use denial cue bids and Kickback. :P Of course it does not make much difference at that stage. After the splinter I would imagine most pairs have the tools to find grand. It is harder if we need either ♠K or the 6th club but can only find out about one of them.

[Jinksy]

Playing Fantunes, same auction as so far, but N having shown more of his playing strength:

 

1C (1H) X

2C 3H*

3S** 4C***

4H 4S

5N**** 7C

 

* splinter

** prob a cue

*** showing even # of KCs

**** denying QC, confirming all 5 KCs, denying any further cues, showing an extra C

 

Of course, saying we 'would' end up in 7C, rather than 3N when someone took something as a stop ask/show is taking the question in the spirit of narcissism in which I assume it was proposed.

[eagles123]

in all honesty i love to think i'd reach 7 but i think 6 would be more realistic :)

 

1♣ (1[heart) X 2♣ 4♣ 4♦ 6♣

[fromageGB]

1♣ . (1♥) . X = 4+spades

2♣(=6 card) . 4♦(ace ask. You want to be in 5♣ at least.)

4♥(1, or 3 without) . 4♠(which?)

5♠(3, with 1 or 2 kings, denying ♥K, has ♠K and perhaps ♦K) . 5NT(♦K?)

6♣(no) . 7♣(pity, I wanted to play in 7NT. The lack of heart bidding leads me to suspect they do not have an 11 card heart fit, so I expect a ruff)

[fromageGB]

Interestingly, those that use RKCB by South without knowing of the heart ace opposite seem to be assuming that North has 3 aces when he replies to show 0 or 3. What would you say as dealer with

K7

KQ4

KT

J98762

?

I open 1♣.

[MrAce]

Interestingly, those that use RKCB by South without knowing of the heart ace opposite seem to be assuming that North has 3 aces when he replies to show 0 or 3. What would you say as dealer with

K7

KQ4

KT

J98762

?

I open 1♣.

 

I give you credit for the effort to construct this hand...however.... even my dog would not do anything to encourage a slam invitation, let alone bidding something encouraging over a splinter bid with KQx in the splinter suit. As soon as he heard the splinter suit or any slamish bid from pd, he would scream just like he does when he accidentally squeezes his tail in the doorway sometimes, and would drop his ears!

 

How about you ? Ok, i got it, you open 1♣ and not weak NT. Maybe you do not play weak NT, if so then you could have bid (imo you should have) 1 NT in your second turn. Which you did not, and lets agree for the sake of argument that these are all borderline decisions (which are not to me), and now you will do something even more encouraging when pd says he is short in hearts ?

 

Here are the people who used RKCB by S

 

Perhaps:

1C - ( 1H ) - DBL

2C - 3H! = splinter for ♣

3S ( cue ) - 4C ( using Zelandakh replies )

??

 

 

1♣--DBL

2♣--3♥ (splinter)

3♠-- 3♠ showing value/keycards and grandslam

 

 

2♣! - (2♥) - 4♥

4♠ - 4NT

5♦ - 5NT

6♠ - 7♣

 

Playing precision

 

 

1♣ - (1♥) - X;

2♣ - 3♥(spl);

4♣(suitable, no !D control) - 4♦(RKCB);

4♠(0/3) - 5♦(K ask);

5♠ - 7♣

 

1C (1H) X

2C 3H

3S* 4C**

4H 4S

5N*** 7C

 

I am assuming Jinsky and Lord Molyb also intended splinter, i will stand corrected if their 3-4♥ meant something else.

[kenrexford]

MrAce, some people might find things interesting that we find trivial. LOL

[fromageGB]

Mr Ace, good post and I agree with you, though a 2♣ rebid is systemic with 6 cards (1NT denies 6). My point is that RKCB has hidden dangers lurking, and you need to make a suggestion and receive cooperation before using it. With a clean ace method, on this hand I can ask immediately, because I am going to play in 5 regardless. Some other hands do not give you the room to seek cooperation first.

[Jinksy]

Here are the people who used RKCB by S

 

I am assuming Jinsky and Lord Molyb also intended splinter, i will stand corrected if their 3-4♥ meant something else.

 

I didn't use RKCB (for the minors I use minorTurbo where possible - hence the 4C bid here) :P

 

3H was a splinter. I'll edit the post to clarify.

 

Playing Fantunes I couldn't have the hand fromageGB gives - it would be a 1N or 2C opening.

[P_Marlowe]

1C - (1H) - X

pass - 2C - (Pass) - 3H (1)

pass 3S (2) - (Pass) - ... (3)

 

 

(1) splinter

(2) Cue, Ace or King

(3) ???

 

Responder likes his hand, but he is min for his bidding so far,

opener did not promise a 6 card suit, and he also did not show

more than a min, i.e. at one point in time someone has to make

the decision that slam will have enough play, or sign off.

If either side signs off, the other side will respect the ign off.

 

So all in all I will end up either in 5C or in 6C, did not try to

figure out, if I can count to 13, after the KC sequences.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

7C quite trivially.

 

....4C (RKC)

4H-5C (0/3 key cards, signoff opposite 0)

5S-7C (3KC+king of spades, can count 6 clubs, 4 spades, 1 diamond, 1 heart and a heart ruff, even if partner only has 5 clubs, then there are surely 2 heart ruffs)

Unless he happens to have a weak NT with doubleton heart, which means there is no 2nd heart ruff.

[manudude03]

Unless he happens to have a weak NT with doubleton heart, which means there is no 2nd heart ruff.

 

If partner was 3235, he would have rebid 1NT. No other shape is possible (just for completeness sake if you wanted to rebid 1NT with a 2236 hand, then you have 13 tricks after 1 ruff)

[P_Marlowe]

If partner was 3235, he would have rebid 1NT. No other shape is possible (just for completeness sake if you wanted to rebid 1NT with a 2236 hand, then you have 13 tricks after 1 ruff)

Without a stopper in a 5 card suit bid by the opponents ?

[manudude03]

Without a stopper in a 5 card suit bid by the opponents ?

 

You know partner has a stopper once you see him confirm 3 key cards as he must have the ace.

[Zelandakh]

You know partner has a stopper once you see him confirm 3 key cards as he must have the ace.

But you did not know it when you bid a non-forcing 1NT. This is a question of philosophy - traditionally you needed a stopper in their suit before bidding NT at any level. It is a comparatively modern practise to forego stoppers at the one level on the basis that this is still the most descriptive bid and even if they cash 5 or 6 off the top the contract could still make. Nonetheless, even those who are happy to bid 1NT in this style often shy away from it when a good and descriptive alternative is available. Thus there is no definitively correct answer with 5235.

 

Also, just a note to fromage - the hand given would also be impossible on my auction, since that hand is neither "suitable for slam" nor lacking a diamond control. To be honest, I cannot see any of those who made a splinter pushing on this hand, which is about as bad as it can be in the context of the auction.

 

Plus a note to Don, after the +2 splinter bid, I am not playing the 4m advance structure, since we have 2 control suits and therefore it is probably better to use the 2 forward-going bids available (3♠ and 4♣) as cues. Because I am using denial cues I need 4♣ over 3♠ for checking on the diamond situation. After a positive 3♠ cue the best use of 4♣ is probably as a Last Train style bid. This is basically a situation where I think our meta-agreement for advancing splinters should overrule the more general agreement for minor suit slam auctions, assuming we have a separate agreement for that.

[fromageGB]

But you did not know it when you bid a non-forcing 1NT. This is a question of philosophy - traditionally you needed a stopper in their suit before bidding NT at any level. It is a comparatively modern practise to forego stoppers at the one level on the basis that this is still the most descriptive bid and even if they cash 5 or 6 off the top the contract could still make. Nonetheless, even those who are happy to bid 1NT in this style often shy away from it when a good and descriptive alternative is available. Thus there is no definitively correct answer with 3235.

As you say, it depends on philosophy and hence the system and methods you adopt. With 3235, 1NT is the definitively correct answer if you define a 2♣ rebid as 6+ cards. I haven't found the style a big loser. Having definitions at this low level does help clarify distribution and hence, sometimes, find better contracts.