whereagles Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Suppose you're playing sayc or 2/1. The bidding is 1m 1♥2♠ I suppose you play this as forcing, but how forcing should it be? Game forcing, or just forcing for 1 round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Traditionally this is played as GF. I suppose you could play some kind of Blackout here where you say "Sorry I responded" and the next bid becomes not forcing, but I don't think this is standard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 i play it as a 1 round force... 2C could have been opened for a game force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I think this is GF, especially if 1S is not forcing. So it is better to play 2S as GF. Some play 1S as forcing, in this case, perhaps 2S can be some kind of picture bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I play this as one round force. It is game force, unless responder bids 2NT here (I play lebehnsol over reverse, where 2NT is the way responder screams weakness). Over this 2NT, if opener rebids 3♣ we can stop short of game. Anything other than 3♣ is game force. Look up lebehnshol over reverse for more on this treatement. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 A jump shift is Forcing to game, this is the standard agreement. Playing lebensohl over this j/s is not a standard agreement, even thou I like to do that myself and think it makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 A jump shift is Forcing to game, this is the standard agreement. Playing lebensohl over this j/s is not a standard agreement, even thou I like to do that myself and think it makes perfect sense. In BridgeBase Online "advanced" lebehnshol over reverse is "standard". In BridgeWorld standard, opener’s reverse after a one-level suit response is forcing and promises opener will make rebid if below game (but very pointedly does not say is game force... a double jump, however is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 sorry if i seem silly but this is really a pet peeve of mine..this 2S bid is a JUMPSHIFT, not a REVERSE... there was a jump and a shift...hence jumpshift. In a reverse (1C-1S-2H) there is a shift of suits but no jump. Anyways, no that I have looked totally anal, this is GF. There is a good reason for this, partner will almost always respond to a 1S rebid (which could hold 18 HCP). There is no reason to make a "1 round force" 2S bid when you have 1S available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 A jump shift is Forcing to game, this is the standard agreement. Playing lebensohl over this j/s is not a standard agreement, even thou I like to do that myself and think it makes perfect sense. In BridgeBase Online "advanced" lebehnshol over reverse is "standard". But, this ain't no stinkin' reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 If I'm playing my usual 2/1, its a game force. Lebensohl applies, so does fast arrival. If I'm playing my 2♣ / 2♦ openers, right now its a virtual force. But we are toying with making this a mini-splinter, since 1m - 1♥ - 1♠ carries the same level of force. In my old strong club partnership, this just showed a 6-5 and a 14-15 count (1♦ opener of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I play this as 1 round forcing, since it's 15+ reverse :P Even with standard agreements, I think this is F1, not GF. 3m is usually signoff without any other methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Opener's jump shift rebid is forcing to game in "standard". I don't think anyone knows if this is the "best" way to play, but I have always played this way in my regular partnerships. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I prefer to play it as 1 round force :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Good Grief Charlie Brown. You better play this as 100% game force without a detailed agreement otherwise.This is a jumpshift, not a reverse. BTW just read an interesting bridge article where many top world class experts said they would never pass opening bid of 1C or 1D with a stiff or void if they have 5 card major and zero pts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I play it as "forcing one round". It is a jump-shift, it is also a reverse. 2C opening doesn't force to game either, imo. It only forces to 3M or 4m. In other words, 2C forces 2 rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 I play it as "forcing one round". It is a jump-shift, it is also a reverse. 2C opening doesn't force to game either, imo. It only forces to 3M or 4m. In other words, 2C forces 2 rounds. I don't really want to get into a debate about naming things, but in all the bridge literature I have ever read, this auction is referred to as a "jump shift" (and reverses are always bids that are not jumps). Maybe all the confusion about this sequence is a result of confusion about names. In standard bidding (whatever that means) "jump shifts" are forcing to game, but "reverses" are only forcing for 1 round. If you want to play your jump shifts as one round forces that's up to you, but I strongly suggest you discuss this with your partner. Jeff Rubens, the editor of The Bridge World, has been campaigning to make jump shifts only forcing for 1 round in "Bridge World Standard", but as far as I can tell few if any of the world's leading players are jumping on this particular bandwagon. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 What would you rebid after opening 1♣ -p-1♥-p-? holding the following:♠Axx,♥x,xx,♣AKQxxxx ? (.....hope that adds up to 13 cards) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 What would you rebid after opening 1♣ -p-1♥-p-? holding the following:♠Axx,♥x,xx,♣AKQxxxx ? (.....hope that adds up to 13 cards) I would bid 3NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 What would you rebid after opening 1♣ -p-1♥-p-? holding the following:♠Axx,♥x,xx,♣AKQxxxx ? (.....hope that adds up to 13 cards) I would bid 3NT Agree. Throw science out of my window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 I'm going to be wet and bid 3C. Can see that 3NT may be right, but it may be wrong as well. To lie and bid 2S her (which is what you were getting at I reckon) is a dreadful bid, and will get exactly what it deserves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Hum.. so I see this level 2 jump-shift is not consensual. I think both sides have a good case... lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 What would you rebid after opening 1♣ -p-1♥-p-? holding the following:♠Axx,♥x,xx,♣AKQxxxx ? (.....hope that adds up to 13 cards) What wouldn't you rebid?: 2♠. 2♠ is not a reverse but jump shift, you can safelly bid 1♠ with 15-18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 If you want to play your jump shifts as one round forces that's up to you, but I strongly suggest you discuss this with your partner. Jeff Rubens, the editor of The Bridge World, has been campaigning to make jump shifts only forcing for 1 round in "Bridge World Standard", but as far as I can tell few if any of the world's leading players are jumping on this particular bandwagon. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Interesting. I do not like this idea. Slam bidding and finding the right strain etc should not be hindered by having the ability to stop on a dime in 4 of a minor or 3 of a major. I like jumpshifts to be full game forces for the same reason I prefer 2/1 game forcing to SAYC. But, Rubens has always been ahead of his time, maybe in 5 years I will be advocating this approach :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 I play this as 100% gameforcing. The 2NT Lebensohl treatment here would still be useful though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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