Having openend light...

[cherdano]

[hv=d=s&v=e&s=sak9752h32dqcjt52]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♠-(X)-XX-(2♥)-?[/hv]

Ok, you usually open moderately light, probably best described by the well-known rule of 19.5, or maybe 27 Zar points. Partner's redouble is not a transfer to clubs, but old-fashioned interest in penalty. Equally old-fashioned, all doubles are for penalty now.

 

Do you hope for a juicy penalty (at these colours!), or do you feel guilty about having openend light?

[the hog]

2S. I certainly don't feel guilty, but I bid my hand - weak opening with long S

[bearmum]

[hv=d=s&v=e&s=sak9752h32dqcjt52]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♠-(X)-XX-(2♥)-?[/hv]

Ok, you usually open moderately light, probably best described by the well-known rule of 19.5, or maybe 27 Zar points. Partner's redouble is not a transfer to clubs, but old-fashioned interest in penalty. Equally old-fashioned, all doubles are for penalty now.

 

Do you hope for a juicy penalty (at these colours!), or do you feel guilty about having openend light?

I bid 2♠ now ( and maybe WISHED i had opened 2♠ weak :lol: [unless not playing weak 2 major opemers] ) ..........but having opened 1♠ I don't want to play ALL doubles are for penalty on MY second time to call so call 2♠ :P

[Free]

2♠! Opening 1♠ is acceptable imo, but I don't think you should try for penalties at 2-level...

[whereagles]

It's a book 2S bid. If pard had 0454 with 12 points.. well, too bad :lol:

[mr1303]

If you pass and then pull to 2S, this is showing a slam try surely? Or at least showing something like an Acol 2 in spades

[Gerben47]

Eek! What kind of bid is 1♠. Oh well, 2♠ now.

[inquiry]

2♠ now... and what do you mean you opened ilght... this is a proud 1♠ opening bid... :-)

 

ben

[daswallow]

It has to be 2♠, bidding in front of partner in this sequence shows weakness. I cannot stand a penalty double at the 2 level with this hand, so suggest we play 2♠ unless partner has significant extras.

As an aside, I'm not even sure this necessarily shows a 6th ♠.

[flytoox]

2♠ now... and what do you mean you opened ilght... this is a proud 1♠ opening bid... :-)

 

ben

Lol, Ben, the fact you rebid 2S now shows it is not a proud 1S bid.

[whereagles]

Hum.. I don't agree with that :ph34r: There are many proud 1S bids that will bid 2S now, e.g.

 

KQJxxx

x

AQxx

xx

[mila85]

I don't understand 1s opening.

2s (or multi or something similar) shows exactly what you have....

Partner knows more, opps are under pressure, where is the problem?

[Free]

Hum.. I don't agree with that :) There are many proud 1S bids that will bid 2S now, e.g.

 

KQJxxx

x

AQxx

xx

The hand you suggest is waaaaaaaaaaaaay stronger than the initial hand imo. This is worth a jump or a pass to play doubled contracts :P

[pclayton]

Hum.. I don't agree with that :P There are many proud 1S bids that will bid 2S now, e.g.

 

KQJxxx

x

AQxx

xx

I would pass with this hand. I'll sit for 3♣ x'd, but pull 2 or even 3♥ x'd.

 

Since I opened this rag, and don't have any real interest in defending (not even clubs), I need to bid.

[inquiry]

Hum.. I don't agree with that :P There are many proud 1S bids that will bid 2S now, e.g.

 

KQJxxx

x

AQxx

xx

I would pass with this hand. I'll sit for 3♣ x'd, but pull 2 or even 3♥ x'd.

 

Since I opened this rag, and don't have any real interest in defending (not even clubs), I need to bid.

I would open... this hand.... I play 2/3 doubles on this hand so... over 2♥, I would pass, and when partner doubled 2♥, I would bid 2♠. This shows a good suit, not enough to force to game, and tends to show one heart. With a void, I would have bid 2♠ earlier with a fair hand and 2♠ immediatley with one heart but not such an offensive hand (one like earlier in the thread).

[TimG]

[hv=d=s&v=e&s=sak9752h32dqcjt52]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♠-(X)-XX-(2♥)-?[/hv]

Ok, you usually open moderately light, probably best described by the well-known rule of 19.5, or maybe 27 Zar points. Partner's redouble is not a transfer to clubs, but old-fashioned interest in penalty. Equally old-fashioned, all doubles are for penalty now.

 

Do you hope for a juicy penalty (at these colours!), or do you feel guilty about having openend light?

If this is a typical, though minimum, opening bid, I am happy to defend 2♥ doubled. I have two trumps, the AK of my suit, and some slow defensive tricks in the minors. I'm quite happy to defend with this hand. In fact, I can't think of a start to the auction I'd be happier with. (Well, maybe 2♠-DBL-RDBL-3♥.)

 

Tim

[cherdano]

I am a little suprised the vote is sooo much in favor of not giving a chance to give a penalty double. I think the question is if you would also pass with a normal opening hand and a singleton in their suit. In that case, I think there is nothing to be ashamed of your defense potential.

 

So would you routinely pull the double with a singleton? Which would make the double rather an optional double in my view.

[fred]

I am a little suprised the vote is sooo much in favor of not giving a chance to give a penalty double. I think the question is if you would also pass with a normal opening hand and a singleton in their suit. In that case, I think there is nothing to be ashamed of your defense potential.

 

So would you routinely pull the double with a singleton? Which would make the double rather an optional double in my view.

I think one of the reasons that people are bidding 2S is that partner might not be in a position to double 2H. Say he bids 3D instead (a forcing bid). Now you will have to bid 3S and partner will assume you have a stronger hand.

 

In "standard" an immediate 2S over 2H suggests a light opener with long spades. Furthermore it is a non-forcing bid. If you have a hand with long spades that is too strong to make a non-forcing 2S bid (and if you hand is not appropriate for 3S, 4S, or 3H cuebid) you are supposed to pass and then bid spades later (unless of course you choose to sit for partner's penalty double should he make one).

 

Another example of the same principle. If you have:

 

xx

x

KQJxx

AJxxx

 

and, over your 1D opening it goes double, redouble, 1 of a major, you are supposed to bid 2C (non-forcing and suggesting a light distributional opener). With a stronger hand with both minors (but one not strong enough to jump to 3C) you would pass and then bid clubs at your next turn (provided you chose to not sit for a penalty double by your partner). Recently I have heard some fine players suggest that even a direct 2C bid in this auction should be treated as a 1-round force, but I believe that most would play 2C here as non-forcing.

 

Bottom line is that opener needs a way to say "OK I heard your RDBL, but as far as I am concerned we should be playing in a partscore".

 

I would open 2S on the actual hand - I don't count singleton Queens for much.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[flytoox]

Hum.. I don't agree with that :) There are many proud 1S bids that will bid 2S now, e.g.

 

KQJxxx

x

AQxx

xx

No matter what u do, you CANNOT rebid 2s with this hand. you will miss too many games.

[whereagles]

I don't think so. With the diamond king possibly outside and a spade misfit, I'm quite happy with 2♠.

 

Still, if you wanna get picky with that hand, here's another proud opener and 2♠ rebid :P

 

KQxxxx

x

KQJx

xx

[cherdano]

I am a little suprised the vote is sooo much in favor of not giving a chance to give a penalty double. I think the question is if you would also pass with a normal opening hand and a singleton in their suit. In that case, I think there is nothing to be ashamed of your defense potential.

 

So would you routinely pull the double with a singleton? Which would make the double rather an optional double in my view.

I think one of the reasons that people are bidding 2S is that partner might not be in a position to double 2H. Say he bids 3D instead (a forcing bid). Now you will have to bid 3S and partner will assume you have a stronger hand.

 

In "standard" an immediate 2S over 2H suggests a light opener with long spades. Furthermore it is a non-forcing bid. If you have a hand with long spades that is too strong to make a non-forcing 2S bid (and if you hand is not appropriate for 3S, 4S, or 3H cuebid) you are supposed to pass and then bid spades later (unless of course you choose to sit for partner's penalty double should he make one).

Thanks a lot for your explanations, Fred. While I understood that 2♠ is more helpful for constructive bidding (and would be automatic for me at every other vulnerability), I hadn't thought it through to this point.

 

However, something keeps irritating me. Your description of the standard structure after a redouble by responder means that we cannot penalize them exactly when we do not want to play in game. On the other hand, playing in 2♥X is most attractive exactly when we do not have game on.

 

Probably it is just a trade-off that has to be made.

 

Arend