support doubles...

[Fluffy]

Which of the following penalty oriented?, which are support or take out?

 

Assume a 5543 system (Even when that is impossible, but assume it does)

 

A

1♣-p-1♠-1NT (nat)

X

 

B

1♣-p-1♠-2♣ (nat)

X

 

C

1♦-p-1♠-2♦ (nat)

X

 

D

1♥-p-1♠-2♥ (nat!)

X

 

E

1♣-p-1♠-3♣ (nat)

X

 

F

1♦-p-1♠-3♦ (nat)

X

 

G

1♣-p-1♠-1NT (2 suiter)

X

 

H

1♣-p-1♠-2NT (2 suiter)

X

[Trinidad]

For me:

Penalty(-ish): AEFH

Support: BCDG

 

Rik

[aguahombre]

I vote "G"=support, B thru F penalty oriented, and A/H cooperative with typically a too-strong for 1NT opener (18+). The examples, except "G" should be high-risk to the frisky.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Here is one more:

I.

1♣- 1♦ - 1♥- 1NT

DBL = ?

[SteveMoe]

Very tempting to vary meaning by context, but I'm not so sure it gains more than a simple "all are support". I've found playing support doubles over 3-level preempts by RHO works well (adjusting for required playing strength).

 

Even when RHO show 15-18 (1NT) responder is better placed to compete effectively knowing if opener has 0-2, 3, or 4 trumps. Penalty (18-0-6-16) is too small a target; competing to the 2-level accurately gains in frequency in these auctions.

[lowerline]

For me:

Penalty(-ish): AEFH

Support: BCDG

 

Rik

 

I agree with this, except for E. E will depend on your system. If you play a short club like me, I prefer E to be take-out.

 

Steven

[lowerline]

Here is one more:

I.

1♣- 1♦ - 1♥- 1NT

DBL = ?

 

Penalty (assuming 1nt is natural).

 

Steven

[cherdano]

Support double applies only below the 2-level, so EFH are out.

Auction G is support double - just like support redouble if RHO had made a takeout double.

Natural 1NT overcalls get doubled for penalty, so A is out.

That leaves BCD. I honestly have no idea what is standard (nor whether there is one). I think on BC takeout or support are most useful.

[CSGibson]

This is all assuming a 2/1/sayc based natural system, like the OP implied.

 

A

1♣-p-1♠-1NT (nat)

X

 

Penalty for me (15+ HCP or tricks)

 

B

1♣-p-1♠-2♣ (nat)

X

 

Support

 

C

1♦-p-1♠-2♦ (nat)

X

 

Support

 

D

1♥-p-1♠-2♥ (nat!)

X

 

Support

 

 

E

1♣-p-1♠-3♣ (nat)

X

 

Penalty (I do not play support X's above 2 of the supported suit)

 

 

F

1♦-p-1♠-3♦ (nat)

X

 

Penalty (I do not play support X's above 2 of the supported suit)

 

G

1♣-p-1♠-1NT (2 suiter)

X

 

Support

 

H

1♣-p-1♠-2NT (2 suiter)

X

 

Extra values, no clear direction.

[awm]

For me:

 

A: extra values / penalty

B-D: support (almost always can pass to penalize and partner, marked with shortage, will double back in)

E-F: extra values; I don't play support doubles this high but these tend to imply more "convertible values" (like 18-19 balanced) than anything else

G-H: extras, defensive values -- generally I play unusual vs. unusual takes priority over support doubles in these situations

[mr1303]

I'm old school. If I bid a suit and then they bid my suit naturally, double says that I actually have that suit. Qxxx doesn't count.

[jogs]

None of your examples follow the standard support double structure. It is usually 1 apple, pass by LHO, 1 orange(usually a major), 2 lemons. Now 2 oranges show four card support and double shows 3-card orange support.

A and G are similar to the support double structure. What percentage of players are playing support doubles on the three level?

If they bid my suit and I double, that is for penalties.